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Video: Team Sky's Owain Doull says disc rotor "cut through" his shoe "like a knife" in Abu Dhabi Tour crash, but video casts doubt on claim
Team Sky's Owain Doull says a disc brake rotor "cut straight through" his shoe "like a knife" following a crash with 1 kilometre remaining of today's opening stage of he Abu Dhabi Tour. But helicopter footage of the incident is inconclusive over whether there was contact between him and Marcel Kittel, the rider whose bike he believes was responsible.
The Welsh rider was speaking to journalist Gregor Brown who uploaded the above video of the conversation to the Cycling Journos on the Road YouTube account.
Doull said: “My shoe’s cut to pieces, that’s definitely brakes that did that.
Disc brakes in the pro peloton: Riders demand better safety for disc brake roll-out
“It’s gone straight through my shoe into my foot," explained the 23-year-old, who said it was "lucky it is not my leg.”
He continued: "It’s like a knife, you know. Just cut straight through that.”
The Team Sky rider believes that Marcel Kittel of Quick Step Floors, who was also involved in the crash, is the only rider involved in the crash who was using disc brakes.
He added: “They’re pretty lethal to be honest. I’ve come off lucky.”
In the moments before the crash, Doull in the black of Team Sky can be seen just ahead of a Sunweb rider in white in the overhead footage posted online by Eurosport, with Kittel, in his team's blue kit with a white helmet, to the outside of the pair.
Doull, who sustained road rash with his jersey and shorts both badly torn, comes down hard towards the barriers, knocking one out of place.
It appears that it was the Sunweb rider who hit Kittel's rear wheel, catapulting the German - and his bike - 15 metres down the road, and it's the same rider who crashes into Doull.
While Doull may be convinced of what happened, knowing the exact chain of events that led to the slicing of his shoe in the inevitable maelstrom of riders, bikes and equipment that accompanies a high speed crash means it's always going to be difficult to know who exactly hit what or vice-versa with any degree of certainty.
We're far from sure there was contact between Doull and Kittel's bike, and there have been suggestions on social media that the damage to the Team Sky rider's shoe could have been caused by the foot of the crash barrier, which on the TV footage in the aftermath of the crash does appear to have a sharp edge to it - as shown in this post to Twitter by Cycling Weekly jounalist Nigel Wynn.
Could it be possible that cut on Doull's shoe was caused by rusty barrier leg? Seems to be rust-coloured mark either side of shoe cut 1/2 pic.twitter.com/Os7x54YSHy
— Nigel Wynn (@NigelWynn) February 23, 2017
Wynn added: "Barrier leg shown in that Abu Dhabi Tour footage appears to be rusty and jutting upwards - not good."
The UCI has reintroduced its trial of disc brakes this season after suspending it following Paris-Roubaix last year when Movistar rider Fran Ventoso claimed that a deep cut in his leg had been caused by a disc brake rotor slicing into him during a crash.
Their use in the peloton remains controversial, however. Kittel's Quick Step Floors team mate Tom Boonen is a huge fan of the technology, but Dimension Data's Mark Cavendish - winner of today's stage - has expressed strong concerns about the safety aspect.
Three-time Tour de France winner Chris Froome said in January last year that it would be safer if all riders in a race were required to use the same type of brakes.
He said: "Having different braking systems in the peloton would be more dangerous.”
Chris Froome talks safety concerns of disc brakes in the pro peloton
This afternoon, he retweeted a picture that Doull had taken of his shoe, with Froome copying in the accounts of the UCI, the professional riders' association the CPA, and the British and Irish Professional Cyclists' Association.
#discbrake #fail @cpacycling @UCI_cycling @BIPCA_ https://t.co/YRtTRf2lJD
— Chris Froome (@chrisfroome) February 23, 2017
Simon joined road.cc as news editor in 2009 and is now the site’s community editor, acting as a link between the team producing the content and our readers. A law and languages graduate, published translator and former retail analyst, he has reported on issues as diverse as cycling-related court cases, anti-doping investigations, the latest developments in the bike industry and the sport’s biggest races. Now back in London full-time after 15 years living in Oxford and Cambridge, he loves cycling along the Thames but misses having his former riding buddy, Elodie the miniature schnauzer, in the basket in front of him.
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65 comments
Not racing, but...https://redditchstandard.co.uk/news/helen-grits-her-teeth-after-crash-sl...
I've been around discs on mountain bikes for 20 years, I've seen and been part of massive crashes and I've never heard of anything like this.
Of course, no other moving parts of a bike are dangerous. Chamfer the outer edge, "problem" solved?
Bollocks
Pros are pretty quick to get unclipped in this sort of situation so not impossible for him to have his left leg out already and therefore possible to get down that side of the bike in front.
If anybody is in any doubt about what a spinning disc can do, try stopping a moving one attatched to a wheel/bike/rider doing 30mph, with your foot. Easy to test with the bike on a turbo if anyone fancies it......
I can't get 30 mph on a turbo! Respect to those that can.
May I refer you to the video link I posted in the first few comments of this thread! I think you'll be surprised at how little damage the outer edge of a disc can do.
One way a disc is really very dangerous is if you trap your finger between the disc 'spokes' and the fork. From experience, really not recommended.
May I refer you to the video link I posted in the first few comments of this thread! I think you'll be surprised at how little damage the outer edge of a disc can do.
[/quote]
Good point but the wheel is barely turning really!
Yet to see the video from the race but at 1km to go they will be at 50-60kph so the energy involved would be considerably more
The brown scuff marks could be from the tyre as his unclipped leg goes past down the lh side of the bike
The only damage I've ever seen in the flesh from a Disc Brake in nearly 20 years of Riding and Racing, is a serious case of Branding on the Calf with a Hope C1 rotor after a long Afan Descent, when at the Style the bike brushed up against his leg.
Re the other injury, There was a notorious photo of I believe a Mechanic who lost the top of his finger adjusting the Caliper whilst the wheel was spinning
When i bought my bike it had a label on the disc warning you not to put your fingers through the holes. I had to put my fingers through the hole to remove the label though FFS!
"pretty lethal".....nobody died.
Taking the same stance as The Met here, I see
"My shoe’s cut to pieces, that’s definitely rakes that did that"
wow, no wonder. those things look really dangerous...
rake-07.jpg
it wasn't me
btw is Mungecrundle home yet?
Video here:
https://youtu.be/mCiZnyMuXv0?t=86
Inconclusive to say the least, although he is next to Kittel in the aftermath. Got to admit, I'm looking at my disk braked bike struggling to think of anything else that could slice a shoe that cleanly (https://twitter.com/owaindoull/status/834775277150560256), although weird things do happen in crashes. Time to introduce
fairingsguards perhaps.Because it is straight through the perforations I would suggest pretty much anything would cause that as it has just torn the material along the weakest point.
Not a fan of discs on road bikes but not believing this one.
Our opinions are valid because we're all pros experienced in crashing in bunch sprints with other disc brake users, right?
Seriously. If it doesn't affect you, don't worry about it!
Is there any footage of the crash? As STiG911 points out it's his left shoe. If the two riders had ended up pointing in opposite directions that would allow Doull's left shoe to come into contact with the disc that's on the left of Kittel's bike. The cut seems to be towards the right hand side of the shoe though, and I'd have thought that his shoe wouldn't be able to go far enough into the spokes to allow a cut in that position.
Maybe if Doull was very close to the right hand side of Kittel's bike, slightly behind, and his left leg ended up on the other side of Kittel's rear wheel and came into contact with his rear disc?
Oh FFS, will someone please show the lad this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nANsrwcWeTM
And then also ask him if he'd rather come into contact with a non serated piece of metal or a massive ring with huge teeth sticking out of it. Very much doubt it would be the latter, in which case why are't people calling for chainring guards to be fitted to bikes?
Yes because that wheel is spinning at 60Kph and the hand is pushed agaist with a fair amount of force not!
A chain ring may cut, but rarely slices when the chain comes off in an crash.
After seeing the video, I thought I'd give it a go (yes, I know, idiot lining up for darwin award).
I spun my rear mtb wheel (important, as there is much more inertia due to tyre size) up to a much higher speed than shown in video (top gear, spinning pedals pretty quickly), and carefully put my had on the disc. Once I established that my hand was not being sliced open I pushed harder onto the rotor ... a lot harder. Sure, it wasn't comfortable, and my skin got a little hot, but despite bringing the wheel to a complete stop purely from my hand on the rotor edge, I can report no blood was drawn at all.
I'm not saying contact with a disc can't result in injury, but there would have to be rediculous forces involved, so much so that contact with a disc would be the least of a riders problems.
how difficult is it to round the edges so that they're NOT sharp? Just make them a slightly larger diameter so braking surface isn't compromised and the bit that is outside gets a half moon profile...
They have already, to some extent. The problem is 'we' want discs to be as thin as possible. Anything that thin is going to be a bit stabby.
Maybe a disc that isn't really a disc. It's sort of a teardrop at the rear facing side of the rear wheel.
Anyway, anything they have to do to appease complaints will be 1: heavier, 2: less aero and 3: look pants.
It could be about 70cm in diameter and 2.5cm thick with maybe a rubber piece around it for protection. The pads could be incorporated into a pivot device wrapped around the rubber protection strip. Oh, hang on...
I always used to think of the chainring being a much more dangerous bit of kit on the bike but in reality the pro riders have a chain wrapped around that whenever they're doing any sort of speed likely to end in a crash situation.
But they are rounded, every disk equiped bike in the world and pro tour has rounded of discs.
Bollocks.
I'm going home to try it and then I'll come back and post the word "Bollocks" again.
How could a bladed spoke have done that?
Hmm. Left shoe gets cut by Kittel's disc - which is also on the left. Also leaves a brown mark like off of chains.
Given the likely speed of impact this could quite literally been anything, but oh no, 'Disc brakes so must've been the disc'
Utter BS.
Chain is more likely to have been a black mark, even if the lube looked clean. The brown looks more like a scorch mark, but that doesn't fit with your narative.
Disk rotors don't just heat up as you're riding along.
I'm no sprint expert but I'm pretty sure applying your brakes to a high temperature is not a winning strategy as you come into the line.
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