Is CS11 dead? Gilligan blames nimbies, Sadiq blames Gilligan

ktache wrote:

I'm guessing it's the difference between a soundbite and a well reasoned arguement.

Sometimes you really need more than a pithy one liner to really get your point across.

I will read it all.

On the contrary, a pithy one liner will often make the point better than a long rambling argument that most people can't be bothered to read.

Reminds me of Neil Kinnock, infamous for his long, convoluted questions at PMQs which Margaret Thatcher easily dodged.  His most successful question was very short and simple.  After a long period of the tories claiming that their entire policy was to reduce inflation, and it went up, he asked something like "How is the government's fight against inflation going?"

Raucous scenes in the house, MT fumbling and embarrassed and widely reported in the msm, something none of his other questions had achieved.  And it made the point better than any rambling, sub-clause ridden question could have done.

Being succinct is a skill, cultivate it if you want to be read.

OldMixte wrote:

Kahn and Bristol's Mayor Rees seem one of a kind, broken promises and don't care about bikes. Bristol alledgedly supports bikes but when I was down in the Broadmead shopping centre the lack of bike stands was sticking out like a sore whatever. If there is no where to secure your bike why would you take in it, why not drive in?

Broadmead has quite a few bike stands at various points around it and also one just by M&S and Tesco. I've never had a problem when cycling there.

hawkinspeter wrote:

OldMixte wrote:

Kahn and Bristol's Mayor Rees seem one of a kind, broken promises and don't care about bikes. Bristol alledgedly supports bikes but when I was down in the Broadmead shopping centre the lack of bike stands was sticking out like a sore whatever. If there is no where to secure your bike why would you take in it, why not drive in?

Broadmead has quite a few bike stands at various points around it and also one just by M&S and Tesco. I've never had a problem when cycling there.

I was just thinking the same thing, you practically trip over them every few metres.

hawkinspeter wrote:

OldMixte wrote:

Kahn and Bristol's Mayor Rees seem one of a kind, broken promises and don't care about bikes. Bristol alledgedly supports bikes but when I was down in the Broadmead shopping centre the lack of bike stands was sticking out like a sore whatever. If there is no where to secure your bike why would you take in it, why not drive in?

Broadmead has quite a few bike stands at various points around it and also one just by M&S and Tesco. I've never had a problem when cycling there.

Its OK but they could do with more (like where they permanently removed the ones by HMV, or by adding some more by the Podium).

Ideally, you don't want more than two bikes attached to each single rack, as is a state of affairs  pretty much constantly at those stands by Tesco.

Of course it'll only get worse when they refurbish/privatise the area between the Podium and Cabot Circus, with guards to remind you that you can't cycle there (like in Quakers Friars).

alansmurphy wrote:

Note to roadcc - can you pluralise nimby...

Not In My Back Yardies. They’re from Jamaica - don’t mess with them.

alansmurphy wrote:

I don't understand the blaming of NIMBYs, surely they want their parks to be traffic free?

Yes, but not at the expense of driving to the park in the first place

wellsprop wrote:

Sounds much better than any active travel arrangements/infrastructure here in Bristol.

To paraphrase Monty Python "Cycle Superhighway 11? You are lucky to have a Cycle Superhighway, we occasionally get a line of paint alongside the gutter!".

Still an utter shambles though.

A line o' paint in t'gutter? Luxury! We 'ad ter mek do wi' randomly-spaced pictures o' bicycles next ter t'gutter - and we were grateful for 'em!

srchar wrote:

wellsprop wrote:

Sounds much better than any active travel arrangements/infrastructure here in Bristol.

To paraphrase Monty Python "Cycle Superhighway 11? You are lucky to have a Cycle Superhighway, we occasionally get a line of paint alongside the gutter!".

Still an utter shambles though.

A line o' paint in t'gutter? Luxury! We 'ad ter mek do wi' randomly-spaced pictures o' bicycles next ter t'gutter - and we were grateful for 'em!

the road leading to the one my parents live on is a one way street yet about a year ago got a 'cycle lane' going against the one way traffic, again, just stencilled on bike symbols every 20 meters or so, that was the biggest new cycling development in the town for ages.

Zjtm231 wrote:

Like him or loathe him the best thing that has happened to cycling in London in the last 30/40 years (possibly ever) is Boris Johnson the Conservative Mayor.   Hardline political cycling activitist (90% left wing) can't even admit this is true....

Is it my imagination or are Labour distinctly anti-cycling?

hawkinspeter wrote:

Zjtm231 wrote:

Like him or loathe him the best thing that has happened to cycling in London in the last 30/40 years (possibly ever) is Boris Johnson the Conservative Mayor.   Hardline political cycling activitist (90% left wing) can't even admit this is true....

Is it my imagination or are Labour distinctly anti-cycling?

Varies with individuals.

Boris was a lone voice amongst the pro-car Tories. Westminster usually tries to derail anything bike, and they've been Tory for ever, and the current transport ministry is a joke.

On the other hand, Burnham employed St Chris as soon as he could, while Khan hired some ex-Nike marketing wonk.

davel wrote:

hawkinspeter wrote:

Zjtm231 wrote:

Like him or loathe him the best thing that has happened to cycling in London in the last 30/40 years (possibly ever) is Boris Johnson the Conservative Mayor.   Hardline political cycling activitist (90% left wing) can't even admit this is true....

Is it my imagination or are Labour distinctly anti-cycling?

Varies with individuals. Boris was a lone voice amongst the pro-car Tories. Westminster usually tries to derail anything bike, and they've been Tory for ever, and the current transport ministry is a joke. On the other hand, Burnham employed St Chris as soon as he could, while Khan hired some ex-Nike marketing wonk.

It was under Boris that motorbikes were allowed into bus lanes.  Nice.

londoncommute wrote:

 

 

It was under Boris that motorbikes were allowed into bus lanes.  Nice.

Motorcyclists are vulnerable road users too, or don't they count?

freespirit1 wrote:

londoncommute wrote:

 

It was under Boris that motorbikes were allowed into bus lanes.  Nice.

 

Motorcyclists are vulnerable road users too, or don't they count?

Of course they're more vulnerable than buses, but they're way less vulnerable than bicycles and so to a cyclist I'm afraid a motorcycle is still one of the predators that we'd like to try and avoid...

freespirit1 wrote:

londoncommute wrote:

 

 

It was under Boris that motorbikes were allowed into bus lanes.  Nice.

 

Motorcyclists are vulnerable road users too, or don't they count?

Motorcyclists are vulnerable like cyclists but also dangerous like motorists.  So they can't be treated as if they were identical to cyclists. 

(And they are noisier than either.)

[][/quote]

It was under Boris that motorbikes were allowed into bus lanes.  Nice.

[/quote]

True. But that was nearly eight years ago.

It was truly depressing when Boris was originally elected.

Ken Livingstone had previously brought in the highly sucessful C Charge despite all the opposition, including Labour's Frank Dobson - who Blair had put up to stand against Ken - along with the Tory's own Steve 'Shagger' Norris. Ken went on to increase the Congestion Charge area with the Western Extension Zone - and for a while cycling in areas like Ladbroke Grove was reasonably stress free.

Some of us over-optimistically looked forward to Ken's proposals for a third term, of charging 'gas-guzzling 4x4s a far more appropriate fee of £25 wheb they wanted to foul London's residential roads, but hopes were dashed when Boris used the services of Lynton Crosby (the business strategist - he of the 'find a weakness in your opponents that divides them, then hammer it home repeatedly' approach) - and together with garnering support of the the motorphile outer boroughs and the taxi cabs (illegally campaigning for Boris with slogans emblazoned on their ticket stubs) succeeded in attaining an unlikely mayor for London.

And, once elected Boris went on to disband the Western Extension, to the glee of the child crushing land cruiser brigade, we were left imagining what could might have been with Ken and a Green deputy. 

He also (as correctly stated above), allowed P2Ws in cycle lanes, and also, came up wth some truly perverse ideas to tackle pollution (remember the 'glue to stick emissions to the pavement' !!).

In the end though, one might see that Lynton Crosby's strategy (which also helped get Cameron back in - with his own look of disbelief at winning, outdoing everyone else's astonishment), came a bit of a cropper when he pitched an even dirtier and overtly racist campaign to try and get Zac Goldsmith the London mayoralty this time.

So, the mayor we have now was perhaps the best of two equally unsuited candidates with regard to cycling issues and dealing with the criminal and colossal issue of excessive motor use. And Sadiq Khan perhaps only won as part of a (reasonable) backlash against Zac Goldsmith (who in fairness it might be said ws rather uncomfortable at being subject to Crosby's manipulation and filthy campaigning tricks).

It is tragic that we never came close enough to gaining the person who would  have made a far greater mayor than Khan (who now serves on the GLA, and has had ideas and suggestions re housing taken up by Sadiq) - The Green's Sian Berry.

With support from co-standee Rosalind Readhead (Ban Private Cars In London) - we could have been well on theway to saving the NHS (with real action on diesel and petrol engine powered machines entering London) - a cycling grid in place - the completion of CS routes - QWs made to fit for purpose (with modal filtering as default).

Sian arguably would not have been as slimy as Sadiq has been, with his vindictive disownment of any achievements of Boris and Gilligan (even the 'Boris bus'...yes it was extravagant... yes expensive...but it certainly remains the nicest bus to use - and could have been adapted to be fully electric rather than hybrid -....but....now cancelled...thanks Sadiq).

So Sadiq. Cancelling of the 'Garden Bridge'....fair enough....

though if it had been put somewhere else in addition to the many cycle / pedestrian bridges that were due...?

...and incidentally, what happened to the cycling bridges that were planned? The one from Chelsea? (The one at Canary Wharf is pending - but was always regarded as a hugely desirable, easy win years ago).

Cancelled eh? Was it to do with not pleasing 'all the stakeholders' again?

Was it reminiscent of your time as a councillor in Tooting when you turned down some fantastic filtering measures. 

Yes, it's not just the Tories who have been heeding the bleating and braying to end that 'greatest of social injustices' - The War On The Motorist.

So Boris came round to see sense in the end (re cycling infra at least). Andrew Gilligan showed an understanding from the start of what was required.

And, as has now been stated many times, recommended to Sadiq early on: "get the job completed quickly - don't allow the opposition time to mobilise..."

What did Sadiq do...(apart from cancelling the Westway scheme and muttering about getting TfL streamlined and...)...?

Well. It's nearly half way through the term. Sadiq is moving on with finally cancelling the CS11 programme, having stalled progress  (or rendering it totally impotent) ...Then blaming Gilligan and Boris... who warned against inaction. Nice one!

Oh but we do have Silvertown Tunnel to look forward to.

How many million again? Or is it billion? It's hard to keep up with cash for motor projects.

Just as well there are no issues with excessive car use, like 75 square kms needed for parking in London alone and errr...pollution...environmental degradation, noise, inactivity, obesity etc etc etc

....oh and, haven't those water levels been high in Paris! 

emishi55 wrote:

[]

It was under Boris that motorbikes were allowed into bus lanes.  Nice.

[/quote]

True. But that was nearly eight years ago.

It was truly depressing when Boris was originally elected.

Ken Livingstone had previously brought in the highly sucessful C Charge despite all the opposition, including Labour's Frank Dobson - who Blair had put up to stand against Ken - along with the Tory's own Steve 'Shagger' Norris. Ken went on to increase the Congestion Charge area with the Western Extension Zone - and for a while cycling in areas like Ladbroke Grove was reasonably stress free.

Some of us over-optimistically looked forward to Ken's proposals for a third term, of charging 'gas-guzzling 4x4s a far more appropriate fee of £25 wheb they wanted to foul London's residential roads, but hopes were dashed when Boris used the services of Lynton Crosby (the business strategist - he of the 'find a weakness in your opponents that divides them, then hammer it home repeatedly' approach) - and together with garnering support of the the motorphile outer boroughs and the taxi cabs (illegally campaigning for Boris with slogans emblazoned on their ticket stubs) succeeded in attaining an unlikely mayor for London.

And, once elected Boris went on to disband the Western Extension, to the glee of the child crushing land cruiser brigade, we were left imagining what could might have been with Ken and a Green deputy. 

He also (as correctly stated above), allowed P2Ws in cycle lanes, and also, came up wth some truly perverse ideas to tackle pollution (remember the 'glue to stick emissions to the pavement' !!).

In the end though, one might see that Lynton Crosby's strategy (which also helped get Cameron back in - with his own look of disbelief at winning, outdoing everyone else's astonishment), came a bit of a cropper when he pitched an even dirtier and overtly racist campaign to try and get Zac Goldsmith the London mayoralty this time.

So, the mayor we have now was perhaps the best of two equally unsuited candidates with regard to cycling issues and dealing with the criminal and colossal issue of excessive motor use. And Sadiq Khan perhaps only won as part of a (reasonable) backlash against Zac Goldsmith (who in fairness it might be said ws rather uncomfortable at being subject to Crosby's manipulation and filthy campaigning tricks).

It is tragic that we never came close enough to gaining the person who would  have made a far greater mayor than Khan (who now serves on the GLA, and has had ideas and suggestions re housing taken up by Sadiq) - The Green's Sian Berry.

With support from co-standee Rosalind Readhead (Ban Private Cars In London) - we could have been well on theway to saving the NHS (with real action on diesel and petrol engine powered machines entering London) - a cycling grid in place - the completion of CS routes - QWs made to fit for purpose (with modal filtering as default).

Sian arguably would not have been as slimy as Sadiq has been, with his vindictive disownment of any achievements of Boris and Gilligan (even the 'Boris bus'...yes it was extravagant... yes expensive...but it certainly remains the nicest bus to use - and could have been adapted to be fully electric rather than hybrid -....but....now cancelled...thanks Sadiq).

So Sadiq. Cancelling of the 'Garden Bridge'....fair enough....

though if it had been put somewhere else in addition to the many cycle / pedestrian bridges that were due...?

...and incidentally, what happened to the cycling bridges that were planned? The one from Chelsea? (The one at Canary Wharf is pending - but was always regarded as a hugely desirable, easy win years ago).

Cancelled eh? Was it to do with not pleasing 'all the stakeholders' again?

Was it reminiscent of your time as a councillor in Tooting when you turned down some fantastic filtering measures. 

Yes, it's not just the Tories who have been heeding the bleating and braying to end that 'greatest of social injustices' - The War On The Motorist.

So Boris came round to see sense in the end (re cycling infra at least). Andrew Gilligan showed an understanding from the start of what was required.

And, as has now been stated many times, recommended to Sadiq early on: "get the job completed quickly - don't allow the opposition time to mobilise..."

What did Sadiq do...(apart from cancelling the Westway scheme and muttering about getting TfL streamlined and...)...?

Well. It's nearly half way through the term. Sadiq is moving on with finally cancelling the CS11 programme, having stalled progress  (or rendering it totally impotent) ...Then blaming Gilligan and Boris... who warned against inaction. Nice one!

Oh but we do have Silvertown Tunnel to look forward to.

How many million again? Or is it billion? It's hard to keep up with cash for motor projects.

Just as well there are no issues with excessive car use, like 75 square kms needed for parking in London alone and errr...pollution...environmental degradation, noise, inactivity, obesity etc etc etc

....oh and, haven't those water levels been high in Paris! 

[/quote]

The art of posting on any kind of social media is brevity.

burtthebike wrote:

emishi55 wrote:

True. But that was nearly eight years ago.

It was truly depressing when Boris was originally elected.

Ken Livingstone had previously brought in the highly sucessful C Charge despite all the opposition, including Labour's Frank Dobson - who Blair had put up to stand against Ken - along with the Tory's own Steve 'Shagger' Norris. Ken went on to increase the Congestion Charge area with the Western Extension Zone - and for a while cycling in areas like Ladbroke Grove was reasonably stress free.

Some of us over-optimistically looked forward to Ken's proposals for a third term, of charging 'gas-guzzling 4x4s a far more appropriate fee of £25 wheb they wanted to foul London's residential roads, but hopes were dashed when Boris used the services of Lynton Crosby (the business strategist - he of the 'find a weakness in your opponents that divides them, then hammer it home repeatedly' approach) - and together with garnering support of the the motorphile outer boroughs and the taxi cabs (illegally campaigning for Boris with slogans emblazoned on their ticket stubs) succeeded in attaining an unlikely mayor for London.

And, once elected Boris went on to disband the Western Extension, to the glee of the child crushing land cruiser brigade, we were left imagining what could might have been with Ken and a Green deputy. 

He also (as correctly stated above), allowed P2Ws in cycle lanes, and also, came up wth some truly perverse ideas to tackle pollution (remember the 'glue to stick emissions to the pavement' !!).

In the end though, one might see that Lynton Crosby's strategy (which also helped get Cameron back in - with his own look of disbelief at winning, outdoing everyone else's astonishment), came a bit of a cropper when he pitched an even dirtier and overtly racist campaign to try and get Zac Goldsmith the London mayoralty this time.

So, the mayor we have now was perhaps the best of two equally unsuited candidates with regard to cycling issues and dealing with the criminal and colossal issue of excessive motor use. And Sadiq Khan perhaps only won as part of a (reasonable) backlash against Zac Goldsmith (who in fairness it might be said ws rather uncomfortable at being subject to Crosby's manipulation and filthy campaigning tricks).

It is tragic that we never came close enough to gaining the person who would  have made a far greater mayor than Khan (who now serves on the GLA, and has had ideas and suggestions re housing taken up by Sadiq) - The Green's Sian Berry.

With support from co-standee Rosalind Readhead (Ban Private Cars In London) - we could have been well on theway to saving the NHS (with real action on diesel and petrol engine powered machines entering London) - a cycling grid in place - the completion of CS routes - QWs made to fit for purpose (with modal filtering as default).

Sian arguably would not have been as slimy as Sadiq has been, with his vindictive disownment of any achievements of Boris and Gilligan (even the 'Boris bus'...yes it was extravagant... yes expensive...but it certainly remains the nicest bus to use - and could have been adapted to be fully electric rather than hybrid -....but....now cancelled...thanks Sadiq).

So Sadiq. Cancelling of the 'Garden Bridge'....fair enough....

though if it had been put somewhere else in addition to the many cycle / pedestrian bridges that were due...?

...and incidentally, what happened to the cycling bridges that were planned? The one from Chelsea? (The one at Canary Wharf is pending - but was always regarded as a hugely desirable, easy win years ago).

Cancelled eh? Was it to do with not pleasing 'all the stakeholders' again?

Was it reminiscent of your time as a councillor in Tooting when you turned down some fantastic filtering measures. 

Yes, it's not just the Tories who have been heeding the bleating and braying to end that 'greatest of social injustices' - The War On The Motorist.

So Boris came round to see sense in the end (re cycling infra at least). Andrew Gilligan showed an understanding from the start of what was required.

And, as has now been stated many times, recommended to Sadiq early on: "get the job completed quickly - don't allow the opposition time to mobilise..."

What did Sadiq do...(apart from cancelling the Westway scheme and muttering about getting TfL streamlined and...)...?

Well. It's nearly half way through the term. Sadiq is moving on with finally cancelling the CS11 programme, having stalled progress  (or rendering it totally impotent) ...Then blaming Gilligan and Boris... who warned against inaction. Nice one!

Oh but we do have Silvertown Tunnel to look forward to.

How many million again? Or is it billion? It's hard to keep up with cash for motor projects.

Just as well there are no issues with excessive car use, like 75 square kms needed for parking in London alone and errr...pollution...environmental degradation, noise, inactivity, obesity etc etc etc

....oh and, haven't those water levels been high in Paris! 

The art of posting on any kind of social media is brevity.

...and tidying up the 'quotes' markup