Is CS11 dead? Gilligan blames nimbies, Sadiq blames Gilligan

brooksby wrote:

burtthebike wrote:

emishi55 wrote:

True. But that was nearly eight years ago.

It was truly depressing when Boris was originally elected.

Ken Livingstone had previously brought in the highly sucessful C Charge despite all the opposition, including Labour's Frank Dobson - who Blair had put up to stand against Ken - along with the Tory's own Steve 'Shagger' Norris. Ken went on to increase the Congestion Charge area with the Western Extension Zone - and for a while cycling in areas like Ladbroke Grove was reasonably stress free.

Some of us over-optimistically looked forward to Ken's proposals for a third term, of charging 'gas-guzzling 4x4s a far more appropriate fee of £25 wheb they wanted to foul London's residential roads, but hopes were dashed when Boris used the services of Lynton Crosby (the business strategist - he of the 'find a weakness in your opponents that divides them, then hammer it home repeatedly' approach) - and together with garnering support of the the motorphile outer boroughs and the taxi cabs (illegally campaigning for Boris with slogans emblazoned on their ticket stubs) succeeded in attaining an unlikely mayor for London.

And, once elected Boris went on to disband the Western Extension, to the glee of the child crushing land cruiser brigade, we were left imagining what could might have been with Ken and a Green deputy. 

He also (as correctly stated above), allowed P2Ws in cycle lanes, and also, came up wth some truly perverse ideas to tackle pollution (remember the 'glue to stick emissions to the pavement' !!).

In the end though, one might see that Lynton Crosby's strategy (which also helped get Cameron back in - with his own look of disbelief at winning, outdoing everyone else's astonishment), came a bit of a cropper when he pitched an even dirtier and overtly racist campaign to try and get Zac Goldsmith the London mayoralty this time.

So, the mayor we have now was perhaps the best of two equally unsuited candidates with regard to cycling issues and dealing with the criminal and colossal issue of excessive motor use. And Sadiq Khan perhaps only won as part of a (reasonable) backlash against Zac Goldsmith (who in fairness it might be said ws rather uncomfortable at being subject to Crosby's manipulation and filthy campaigning tricks).

It is tragic that we never came close enough to gaining the person who would  have made a far greater mayor than Khan (who now serves on the GLA, and has had ideas and suggestions re housing taken up by Sadiq) - The Green's Sian Berry.

With support from co-standee Rosalind Readhead (Ban Private Cars In London) - we could have been well on theway to saving the NHS (with real action on diesel and petrol engine powered machines entering London) - a cycling grid in place - the completion of CS routes - QWs made to fit for purpose (with modal filtering as default).

Sian arguably would not have been as slimy as Sadiq has been, with his vindictive disownment of any achievements of Boris and Gilligan (even the 'Boris bus'...yes it was extravagant... yes expensive...but it certainly remains the nicest bus to use - and could have been adapted to be fully electric rather than hybrid -....but....now cancelled...thanks Sadiq).

So Sadiq. Cancelling of the 'Garden Bridge'....fair enough....

though if it had been put somewhere else in addition to the many cycle / pedestrian bridges that were due...?

...and incidentally, what happened to the cycling bridges that were planned? The one from Chelsea? (The one at Canary Wharf is pending - but was always regarded as a hugely desirable, easy win years ago).

Cancelled eh? Was it to do with not pleasing 'all the stakeholders' again?

Was it reminiscent of your time as a councillor in Tooting when you turned down some fantastic filtering measures. 

Yes, it's not just the Tories who have been heeding the bleating and braying to end that 'greatest of social injustices' - The War On The Motorist.

So Boris came round to see sense in the end (re cycling infra at least). Andrew Gilligan showed an understanding from the start of what was required.

And, as has now been stated many times, recommended to Sadiq early on: "get the job completed quickly - don't allow the opposition time to mobilise..."

What did Sadiq do...(apart from cancelling the Westway scheme and muttering about getting TfL streamlined and...)...?

Well. It's nearly half way through the term. Sadiq is moving on with finally cancelling the CS11 programme, having stalled progress  (or rendering it totally impotent) ...Then blaming Gilligan and Boris... who warned against inaction. Nice one!

Oh but we do have Silvertown Tunnel to look forward to.

How many million again? Or is it billion? It's hard to keep up with cash for motor projects.

Just as well there are no issues with excessive car use, like 75 square kms needed for parking in London alone and errr...pollution...environmental degradation, noise, inactivity, obesity etc etc etc

....oh and, haven't those water levels been high in Paris! 

The art of posting on any kind of social media is brevity.

...and tidying up the 'quotes' markup

I deliberately left it exactly as posted.

burtthebike wrote:

emishi55 wrote:

[]

It was under Boris that motorbikes were allowed into bus lanes.  Nice.

True. But that was nearly eight years ago.

It was truly depressing when Boris was originally elected.

Ken Livingstone had previously brought in the highly sucessful C Charge despite all the opposition, including Labour's Frank Dobson - who Blair had put up to stand against Ken - along with the Tory's own Steve 'Shagger' Norris. Ken went on to increase the Congestion Charge area with the Western Extension Zone - and for a while cycling in areas like Ladbroke Grove was reasonably stress free.

Some of us over-optimistically looked forward to Ken's proposals for a third term, of charging 'gas-guzzling 4x4s a far more appropriate fee of £25 wheb they wanted to foul London's residential roads, but hopes were dashed when Boris used the services of Lynton Crosby (the business strategist - he of the 'find a weakness in your opponents that divides them, then hammer it home repeatedly' approach) - and together with garnering support of the the motorphile outer boroughs and the taxi cabs (illegally campaigning for Boris with slogans emblazoned on their ticket stubs) succeeded in attaining an unlikely mayor for London.

And, once elected Boris went on to disband the Western Extension, to the glee of the child crushing land cruiser brigade, we were left imagining what could might have been with Ken and a Green deputy. 

He also (as correctly stated above), allowed P2Ws in cycle lanes, and also, came up wth some truly perverse ideas to tackle pollution (remember the 'glue to stick emissions to the pavement' !!).

In the end though, one might see that Lynton Crosby's strategy (which also helped get Cameron back in - with his own look of disbelief at winning, outdoing everyone else's astonishment), came a bit of a cropper when he pitched an even dirtier and overtly racist campaign to try and get Zac Goldsmith the London mayoralty this time.

So, the mayor we have now was perhaps the best of two equally unsuited candidates with regard to cycling issues and dealing with the criminal and colossal issue of excessive motor use. And Sadiq Khan perhaps only won as part of a (reasonable) backlash against Zac Goldsmith (who in fairness it might be said ws rather uncomfortable at being subject to Crosby's manipulation and filthy campaigning tricks).

It is tragic that we never came close enough to gaining the person who would  have made a far greater mayor than Khan (who now serves on the GLA, and has had ideas and suggestions re housing taken up by Sadiq) - The Green's Sian Berry.

With support from co-standee Rosalind Readhead (Ban Private Cars In London) - we could have been well on theway to saving the NHS (with real action on diesel and petrol engine powered machines entering London) - a cycling grid in place - the completion of CS routes - QWs made to fit for purpose (with modal filtering as default).

Sian arguably would not have been as slimy as Sadiq has been, with his vindictive disownment of any achievements of Boris and Gilligan (even the 'Boris bus'...yes it was extravagant... yes expensive...but it certainly remains the nicest bus to use - and could have been adapted to be fully electric rather than hybrid -....but....now cancelled...thanks Sadiq).

So Sadiq. Cancelling of the 'Garden Bridge'....fair enough....

though if it had been put somewhere else in addition to the many cycle / pedestrian bridges that were due...?

...and incidentally, what happened to the cycling bridges that were planned? The one from Chelsea? (The one at Canary Wharf is pending - but was always regarded as a hugely desirable, easy win years ago).

Cancelled eh? Was it to do with not pleasing 'all the stakeholders' again?

Was it reminiscent of your time as a councillor in Tooting when you turned down some fantastic filtering measures. 

Yes, it's not just the Tories who have been heeding the bleating and braying to end that 'greatest of social injustices' - The War On The Motorist.

So Boris came round to see sense in the end (re cycling infra at least). Andrew Gilligan showed an understanding from the start of what was required.

And, as has now been stated many times, recommended to Sadiq early on: "get the job completed quickly - don't allow the opposition time to mobilise..."

What did Sadiq do...(apart from cancelling the Westway scheme and muttering about getting TfL streamlined and...)...?

Well. It's nearly half way through the term. Sadiq is moving on with finally cancelling the CS11 programme, having stalled progress  (or rendering it totally impotent) ...Then blaming Gilligan and Boris... who warned against inaction. Nice one!

Oh but we do have Silvertown Tunnel to look forward to.

How many million again? Or is it billion? It's hard to keep up with cash for motor projects.

Just as well there are no issues with excessive car use, like 75 square kms needed for parking in London alone and errr...pollution...environmental degradation, noise, inactivity, obesity etc etc etc

....oh and, haven't those water levels been high in Paris! 

[/quote]

The art of posting on any kind of social media is brevity.

[/quote]

that may be the "art" but when you want to give people a wide ranging view on the subject detail is very much needed, thank you. 

check12 wrote:

burtthebike wrote:

emishi55 wrote:

[]

It was under Boris that motorbikes were allowed into bus lanes.  Nice.

 

True. But that was nearly eight years ago.

It was truly depressing when Boris was originally elected.

Ken Livingstone had previously brought in the highly sucessful C Charge despite all the opposition, including Labour's Frank Dobson - who Blair had put up to stand against Ken - along with the Tory's own Steve 'Shagger' Norris. Ken went on to increase the Congestion Charge area with the Western Extension Zone - and for a while cycling in areas like Ladbroke Grove was reasonably stress free.

Some of us over-optimistically looked forward to Ken's proposals for a third term, of charging 'gas-guzzling 4x4s a far more appropriate fee of £25 wheb they wanted to foul London's residential roads, but hopes were dashed when Boris used the services of Lynton Crosby (the business strategist - he of the 'find a weakness in your opponents that divides them, then hammer it home repeatedly' approach) - and together with garnering support of the the motorphile outer boroughs and the taxi cabs (illegally campaigning for Boris with slogans emblazoned on their ticket stubs) succeeded in attaining an unlikely mayor for London.

And, once elected Boris went on to disband the Western Extension, to the glee of the child crushing land cruiser brigade, we were left imagining what could might have been with Ken and a Green deputy. 

He also (as correctly stated above), allowed P2Ws in cycle lanes, and also, came up wth some truly perverse ideas to tackle pollution (remember the 'glue to stick emissions to the pavement' !!).

In the end though, one might see that Lynton Crosby's strategy (which also helped get Cameron back in - with his own look of disbelief at winning, outdoing everyone else's astonishment), came a bit of a cropper when he pitched an even dirtier and overtly racist campaign to try and get Zac Goldsmith the London mayoralty this time.

So, the mayor we have now was perhaps the best of two equally unsuited candidates with regard to cycling issues and dealing with the criminal and colossal issue of excessive motor use. And Sadiq Khan perhaps only won as part of a (reasonable) backlash against Zac Goldsmith (who in fairness it might be said ws rather uncomfortable at being subject to Crosby's manipulation and filthy campaigning tricks).

It is tragic that we never came close enough to gaining the person who would  have made a far greater mayor than Khan (who now serves on the GLA, and has had ideas and suggestions re housing taken up by Sadiq) - The Green's Sian Berry.

With support from co-standee Rosalind Readhead (Ban Private Cars In London) - we could have been well on theway to saving the NHS (with real action on diesel and petrol engine powered machines entering London) - a cycling grid in place - the completion of CS routes - QWs made to fit for purpose (with modal filtering as default).

Sian arguably would not have been as slimy as Sadiq has been, with his vindictive disownment of any achievements of Boris and Gilligan (even the 'Boris bus'...yes it was extravagant... yes expensive...but it certainly remains the nicest bus to use - and could have been adapted to be fully electric rather than hybrid -....but....now cancelled...thanks Sadiq).

So Sadiq. Cancelling of the 'Garden Bridge'....fair enough....

though if it had been put somewhere else in addition to the many cycle / pedestrian bridges that were due...?

...and incidentally, what happened to the cycling bridges that were planned? The one from Chelsea? (The one at Canary Wharf is pending - but was always regarded as a hugely desirable, easy win years ago).

Cancelled eh? Was it to do with not pleasing 'all the stakeholders' again?

Was it reminiscent of your time as a councillor in Tooting when you turned down some fantastic filtering measures. 

Yes, it's not just the Tories who have been heeding the bleating and braying to end that 'greatest of social injustices' - The War On The Motorist.

So Boris came round to see sense in the end (re cycling infra at least). Andrew Gilligan showed an understanding from the start of what was required.

And, as has now been stated many times, recommended to Sadiq early on: "get the job completed quickly - don't allow the opposition time to mobilise..."

 

What did Sadiq do...(apart from cancelling the Westway scheme and muttering about getting TfL streamlined and...)...?

Well. It's nearly half way through the term. Sadiq is moving on with finally cancelling the CS11 programme, having stalled progress  (or rendering it totally impotent) ...Then blaming Gilligan and Boris... who warned against inaction. Nice one!

 

Oh but we do have Silvertown Tunnel to look forward to.

How many million again? Or is it billion? It's hard to keep up with cash for motor projects.

Just as well there are no issues with excessive car use, like 75 square kms needed for parking in London alone and errr...pollution...environmental degradation, noise, inactivity, obesity etc etc etc

 

....oh and, haven't those water levels been high in Paris! 

 

 

 

     

    

 

  

  

 

   

   

 

The art of posting on any kind of social media is brevity.

[/quote]

that may be the "art" but when you want to give people a wide ranging view on the subject detail is very much needed, thank you. 

[/quote]

But some research I've just conducted shows that the number of times a post is read is inverse to its length, so very few people actually read long posts.  If you can't express yourself succinctly, it probably isn't worth saying.

You might want to give people a wide ranging view, but I, and I'm sure a lot of other people, would appreciate it if you stuck to the point, and did it in as few words as possible.  Prolix is unforgiveable.

burtthebike wrote:

But some research I've just conducted shows that the number of times a post is read is inverse to its length, so very few people actually read long posts.  If you can't express yourself succinctly, it probably isn't worth saying.

You might want to give people a wide ranging view, but I, and I'm sure a lot of other people, would appreciate it if you stuck to the point, and did it in as few words as possible.  Prolix is unforgiveable.

I'm just thankful he used paragraph breaks.  It's the eye-hurting wall-of-text posts that really put people off.

burtthebike wrote:

check12 wrote:

burtthebike wrote:

emishi55 wrote:

[]

It was under Boris that motorbikes were allowed into bus lanes.  Nice.

 

True. But that was nearly eight years ago.

It was truly depressing when Boris was originally elected.

Ken Livingstone had previously brought in the highly sucessful C Charge despite all the opposition, including Labour's Frank Dobson - who Blair had put up to stand against Ken - along with the Tory's own Steve 'Shagger' Norris. Ken went on to increase the Congestion Charge area with the Western Extension Zone - and for a while cycling in areas like Ladbroke Grove was reasonably stress free.

Some of us over-optimistically looked forward to Ken's proposals for a third term, of charging 'gas-guzzling 4x4s a far more appropriate fee of £25 wheb they wanted to foul London's residential roads, but hopes were dashed when Boris used the services of Lynton Crosby (the business strategist - he of the 'find a weakness in your opponents that divides them, then hammer it home repeatedly' approach) - and together with garnering support of the the motorphile outer boroughs and the taxi cabs (illegally campaigning for Boris with slogans emblazoned on their ticket stubs) succeeded in attaining an unlikely mayor for London.

And, once elected Boris went on to disband the Western Extension, to the glee of the child crushing land cruiser brigade, we were left imagining what could might have been with Ken and a Green deputy. 

He also (as correctly stated above), allowed P2Ws in cycle lanes, and also, came up wth some truly perverse ideas to tackle pollution (remember the 'glue to stick emissions to the pavement' !!).

In the end though, one might see that Lynton Crosby's strategy (which also helped get Cameron back in - with his own look of disbelief at winning, outdoing everyone else's astonishment), came a bit of a cropper when he pitched an even dirtier and overtly racist campaign to try and get Zac Goldsmith the London mayoralty this time.

So, the mayor we have now was perhaps the best of two equally unsuited candidates with regard to cycling issues and dealing with the criminal and colossal issue of excessive motor use. And Sadiq Khan perhaps only won as part of a (reasonable) backlash against Zac Goldsmith (who in fairness it might be said ws rather uncomfortable at being subject to Crosby's manipulation and filthy campaigning tricks).

It is tragic that we never came close enough to gaining the person who would  have made a far greater mayor than Khan (who now serves on the GLA, and has had ideas and suggestions re housing taken up by Sadiq) - The Green's Sian Berry.

With support from co-standee Rosalind Readhead (Ban Private Cars In London) - we could have been well on theway to saving the NHS (with real action on diesel and petrol engine powered machines entering London) - a cycling grid in place - the completion of CS routes - QWs made to fit for purpose (with modal filtering as default).

Sian arguably would not have been as slimy as Sadiq has been, with his vindictive disownment of any achievements of Boris and Gilligan (even the 'Boris bus'...yes it was extravagant... yes expensive...but it certainly remains the nicest bus to use - and could have been adapted to be fully electric rather than hybrid -....but....now cancelled...thanks Sadiq).

So Sadiq. Cancelling of the 'Garden Bridge'....fair enough....

though if it had been put somewhere else in addition to the many cycle / pedestrian bridges that were due...?

...and incidentally, what happened to the cycling bridges that were planned? The one from Chelsea? (The one at Canary Wharf is pending - but was always regarded as a hugely desirable, easy win years ago).

Cancelled eh? Was it to do with not pleasing 'all the stakeholders' again?

Was it reminiscent of your time as a councillor in Tooting when you turned down some fantastic filtering measures. 

Yes, it's not just the Tories who have been heeding the bleating and braying to end that 'greatest of social injustices' - The War On The Motorist.

So Boris came round to see sense in the end (re cycling infra at least). Andrew Gilligan showed an understanding from the start of what was required.

And, as has now been stated many times, recommended to Sadiq early on: "get the job completed quickly - don't allow the opposition time to mobilise..."

 

What did Sadiq do...(apart from cancelling the Westway scheme and muttering about getting TfL streamlined and...)...?

Well. It's nearly half way through the term. Sadiq is moving on with finally cancelling the CS11 programme, having stalled progress  (or rendering it totally impotent) ...Then blaming Gilligan and Boris... who warned against inaction. Nice one!

 

Oh but we do have Silvertown Tunnel to look forward to.

How many million again? Or is it billion? It's hard to keep up with cash for motor projects.

Just as well there are no issues with excessive car use, like 75 square kms needed for parking in London alone and errr...pollution...environmental degradation, noise, inactivity, obesity etc etc etc

 

....oh and, haven't those water levels been high in Paris! 

 

 

 

     

    

 

  

  

 

   

   

 

The art of posting on any kind of social media is brevity.

that may be the "art" but when you want to give people a wide ranging view on the subject detail is very much needed, thank you. 

[/quote]

But some research I've just conducted shows that the number of times a post is read is inverse to its length, so very few people actually read long posts.  If you can't express yourself succinctly, it probably isn't worth saying.

You might want to give people a wide ranging view, but I, and I'm sure a lot of other people, would appreciate it if you stuck to the point, and did it in as few words as possible.  Prolix is unforgiveable.

[/quote]

by "you" I guess you mean the poster who posted the long post, not me who didn't 100% agree with what you said. 

Depends what you want to get when you post something, if it's likes or +1s etc then yes many people reading it probably will increase the likelihood of getting what you want. If it's to give all the facts you have and then the reader can choose to read or not then that's up to them.

davel wrote:

hawkinspeter wrote:

Zjtm231 wrote:

Like him or loathe him the best thing that has happened to cycling in London in the last 30/40 years (possibly ever) is Boris Johnson the Conservative Mayor.   Hardline political cycling activitist (90% left wing) can't even admit this is true....

Is it my imagination or are Labour distinctly anti-cycling?

Varies with individuals. Boris was a lone voice amongst the pro-car Tories. Westminster usually tries to derail anything bike, and they've been Tory for ever, and the current transport ministry is a joke. On the other hand, Burnham employed St Chris as soon as he could, while Khan hired some ex-Nike marketing wonk.

Now before we all get on the sucking Boris' cock about how pro-cycling he is, we have to remember how and why he became so "pro-cycling"

For his entire first term and the first year of his second, he refused to do anything about the calls from various cycling organisation to "Go Dutch" or build any kind of segregated cycle infra.

He did actually say that cycling through Elephant and Castle was ok "if you kept your wits about you".

He only bucked his ideas up when 6 cyclists were killed in a two week period one November and it became plainly obvious to him that his legacy would be utterly fucked.

Despite getting a fire under his arse to do something, (as we can go through just how fucked the infra that has been put into place - TfL can design it well as long as its a stright line but as soon as it comes into conflict with anything, their design skills go to shit), he still do fuck all about pollution and actually tried to mask the monitoring stations so their readings would go down.

Now despite all that, Khan is absolutely fucking useless and I hope he loses at the next election.

Zjtm231 wrote:

Said it before and I'll say it again - Khan couldn't give a damn about cycling.

Practically all the promises he made to get elected haven't been met.  List below

1; minimum of 80,000 new homes built a year - only approx 20,000 built in 2017.

2; no stikes on the tube

3; no increase in TFL fares

4; 50% of all new homes to be affordable - now changed to 35%

5; 32,000 police in London - currently less than 31,000

6; make London 100% green by 2050 - they didnt know how "green" it was was he came to power.

7:"Make London a by word for cycling" - he's canceled more cycling projects that he has approved.

 

Like him or loathe him the best thing that has happened to cycling in London in the last 30/40 years (possibly ever) is Boris Johnson the Conservative Mayor.   Hardline political cycling activitist (90% left wing) can't even admit this is true....

 

Thus if anyone who is properly concerned about cycling in London at the next election they should vote for any other candidate BUT Khan.

Be careful saying that - as Zac Goldsmith is more anti-cycling than Khan.

Also the London mayoral election uses the AV system so you can vote both Green and Labour e.g. ones policies you wish for as first while the second is to stop someone completely awful getting in.

Peowpeowpeowlasers wrote:

> there has to be agreement from all responsible authorities

Why?  If the arguments against are weak and plain incorrect, why can't the mayor simply override them and force the plan through?

Because the road round the park belongs to the City of Westminster. The London Mayor only has authority over TfL's trunk routes. Westminster has been conspicuously anti-cycling-infrastructure from day 1, on every scheme. They don't want to lose their precious car parking and precious rat-runs. It's why Westminster is a traffic-choked polluted hell-hole.

matthewn5]</p>

<p>[quote=Peowpeowpeowlasers wrote:

> there has to be agreement from all responsible authorities

Why?  If the arguments against are weak and plain incorrect, why can't the mayor simply override them and force the plan through?

Because the road round the park belongs to the City of Westminster. The London Mayor only has authority over TfL's trunk routes. Westminster has been conspicuously anti-cycling-infrastructure from day 1, on every scheme. They don't want to lose their precious car parking and precious rat-runs. It's why Westminster is a traffic-choked polluted hell-hole.

I think some of the road is Camden.(the West) Camden do support the scheme. So do the Royal Parks. Westminster do oppose any cycling infrastructure project, that is true.