Near Miss of the Day 168: Van driver crosses solid line, forcing cyclists out of way

ktache wrote:

If the van driver wouldn't have done it to a bus (8.5 tonnes for a single decker) then he's a bully and the posting of the video is entirely legitimate.

well said.

That incident is on my commuting route, and it's all too common for drivers to do this at a couple of places. It's a result of lanes narrowing and widening, where the cyclists are positioning themselves to go straight on, and the drivers are moving across to the left either to turn left, or to avoid getting caught behind a driver turning right. I'd say most people, drivers and cyclists, negotiate it ok most times, but enough drivers try to bully their way across for it to be A Thing in my mind, and I make a point of holding my line when they do.

ConcordeCX wrote:

ktache wrote:

If the van driver wouldn't have done it to a bus (8.5 tonnes for a single decker) then he's a bully and the posting of the video is entirely legitimate.

well said.

That incident is on my commuting route, and it's all too common for drivers to do this at a couple of places. It's a result of lanes narrowing and widening, where the cyclists are positioning themselves to go straight on, and the drivers are moving across to the left either to turn left, or to avoid getting caught behind a driver turning right. I'd say most people, drivers and cyclists, negotiate it ok most times, but enough drivers try to bully their way across for it to be A Thing in my mind, and I make a point of holding my line when they do.

 

That's the crux of the issue isn't it, "if they wouldn't do it to a bus then they're a bully", we don't know whether they would of started manouvering if a bus was same distance/speed as the OP, or whether a bus driver would of flashed their lights or held back, to let them in, thus avoiding the conflict. 

Good summary ConcordeCXJ, bar the last part of holding your line (regardless, being dead right) to make a point.

Like I say, I'm lucky I don't have to contend with London rush hour traffic and most of time happily coexist with other road users, I don't feel that I get bullied on the roads I ride on a daily basis, as I would adapt my riding to suit the local area, if I did feel that I was being bullied, it may make me change my mindset. 

Pitbull Steelers wrote:

Personally, having seen he was indicating,  i would have slowed and allowed the van to move over, just common courtesy which unfortunately seems to be disappearing on our roads these days. Thats no a dig at cycle london just an observation about traffic movement in general. 

I might have felt more aggrieved had the speeds been greater and the van drivers actions been more aggressive. Its more like handbags at ten paces. 

No doubt others will disagree but thats what forums are all about.

No, that's not 'common courtesy'.  That's what you call subservience, and we have so internalised our 'inferiority' when compared to the motor car, that we unthinkingly stand back, lower our eyes and let our masters go on ahead.  

cycle.london wrote:

Pitbull Steelers wrote:

Personally, having seen he was indicating,  i would have slowed and allowed the van to move over, just common courtesy which unfortunately seems to be disappearing on our roads these days. Thats no a dig at cycle london just an observation about traffic movement in general. 

I might have felt more aggrieved had the speeds been greater and the van drivers actions been more aggressive. Its more like handbags at ten paces. 

No doubt others will disagree but thats what forums are all about.

No, that's not 'common courtesy'.  That's what you call subservience, and we have so internalised our 'inferiority' when compared to the motor car, that we unthinkingly stand back, lower our eyes and let our masters go on ahead.  

I dont like using foul language on forums as there might be children reading so - "your as thick as claggy toffee". You were travelling at 8mph and a vehicle in front of you indicated to come into the lane was it that much of a problem to allow them in ?????

Had you been in a car would you have still tried to get through the gap after the van pulled over ???

I'm sorry but this could have easily been avoided by both the van driver and yourself. Like i said earlier had you been going at 20mph + and he pulled over i can understand your annoyance but howay man get a grip.   

Pitbull Steelers wrote:

Personally, having seen he was indicating,  i would have slowed and allowed the van to move over, just common courtesy which unfortunately seems to be disappearing on our roads these days. Thats no a dig at cycle london just an observation about traffic movement in general. 

I might have felt more aggrieved had the speeds been greater and the van drivers actions been more aggressive. Its more like handbags at ten paces. 

No doubt others will disagree but thats what forums are all about.

Life in the big city, I reckon. 

The rat race is a bit 'rattier' and for longer and further. I reckon that if you showed what most people might consider common courtesy, you'd arrive in work for your Monday morning sometime around Wednesday lunchtime. People just appear to take advantage of any hint of gap.

If you're in the wrong lane in rush hour, it's your tough shit. If you're White Van Man you might fancy bullying your way in. You want to do that with other metal boxes, fair enough. You do that with people on bikes, you're a twat. If you then get indignant about a cyclist might not like you barging your way in with your three tons, you need to be off the road for a serious spell. 

AndyH01 wrote:

I've edited my orginal replies several times prior to posting and will summarise by saying personally for me, all this highlights is the widening of the gulf between various road user groups. It fuels this current climete of motors v cycles v pedesrians, with the colsutation on potentail law reforms to "protect the most vounlurable road users" I'm not sure if this example strenghens or weakens our arguments.

I don't know the road layout other than from what I can see on the video, which I have reviewed several times. I would suggest the first incident with the VW van, is an example of poor road planning, design and layout. Effectivley the cycle lane appears to be a left hand turn only lane, as the VW was already in the correct lane for the left turn, his late indication was a courtesey to the other road users, including cyclists, using the cycle lane that may indeed be going straight on and therefore by using the green tarmac "cycle lane" actually puts cyclists in the wrong lane, for going straigt on. Personally I would be in the middle lane, in this type of situation and not use the "cycle lane" as though I was in my car..

As I say, I'm not from London and AFAIK, use of cycle lanes are optional, not mandontry.

The second incident with the white van, sorry but I am struggling a bit with the preception and I'm assuming out of all the other close passess submitted to Road cc for consideration on the day, this being the worse example.

I appreicate the OP says they've not been on the bike for awhile and fatigued after 18 miles, but knows the road layout and route well and usually takes the last 3rd of the lane but on this ocassion was more in secondary.

Personally I think the OP had the blinkers on/auto pilot a bit and was following the cyclist in front, with the gray T shirt and black ruksack, who being in front of the van had moved into the middle lane, causing the OP to drift a bit to the right, to their normal position at this juction, at the same time as the van driver had started his manovour, moving into the left lane, beleving the OP would maintain their course/line ie secondary position and may have been going left, for all the van driver knew, not as though OP was signalling to move to the right from the bus lane that mergers to a left turn only lane.  

The van crossed the solid white line approx a meter from where the bus lane ends, possibly due to the longer stationary queuing traffic ahead and to position behind the red car in the left lane, if he'd waited to the end of the line he probably would of got stuck between the left and middle lanes causing further issues for all other road users. 

The beep of the horn could of been for anything.

I'm genuinly not trolling, yes the van driver could of waited in his current lane until the OP had safetly pased, however given how busy the road appears, there could be loads more cyclists behind also doing the same ie using the left lane to filter prior to switching at the junction, which then means motors going straight on, get stuck behind the van.

It comes down to planning design and road layout again, if the bus lane was shorter or didn't exist, it would allow vehicles to get in lane earlier.

Personall I'd be filtering through on the right to avoid the left hook. 

No, I did not have 'blinkers' on and no, I was not 'on autopilot'.  Both are ways to get killed, and on my commute into and out of London, I am insanely focused at all times.    I knew exactly what was going on ahead of me and  - if you'll note the frequent 'lifesaver' glances to my left and right - behind me.    

Quote:

if he'd waited to the end of the line he probably would of got stuck between the left and middle lanes causing further issues for all other road users.

Diddums.  

Tough shit.   He waits.  He doesn't barge in.  

You may not be trolling, but you're not that bright.  

cycle.london wrote:

AndyH01 wrote:

I've edited my orginal replies several times prior to posting and will summarise by saying personally for me, all this highlights is the widening of the gulf between various road user groups. It fuels this current climete of motors v cycles v pedesrians, with the colsutation on potentail law reforms to "protect the most vounlurable road users" I'm not sure if this example strenghens or weakens our arguments.

I don't know the road layout other than from what I can see on the video, which I have reviewed several times. I would suggest the first incident with the VW van, is an example of poor road planning, design and layout. Effectivley the cycle lane appears to be a left hand turn only lane, as the VW was already in the correct lane for the left turn, his late indication was a courtesey to the other road users, including cyclists, using the cycle lane that may indeed be going straight on and therefore by using the green tarmac "cycle lane" actually puts cyclists in the wrong lane, for going straigt on. Personally I would be in the middle lane, in this type of situation and not use the "cycle lane" as though I was in my car..

As I say, I'm not from London and AFAIK, use of cycle lanes are optional, not mandontry.

The second incident with the white van, sorry but I am struggling a bit with the preception and I'm assuming out of all the other close passess submitted to Road cc for consideration on the day, this being the worse example.

I appreicate the OP says they've not been on the bike for awhile and fatigued after 18 miles, but knows the road layout and route well and usually takes the last 3rd of the lane but on this ocassion was more in secondary.

Personally I think the OP had the blinkers on/auto pilot a bit and was following the cyclist in front, with the gray T shirt and black ruksack, who being in front of the van had moved into the middle lane, causing the OP to drift a bit to the right, to their normal position at this juction, at the same time as the van driver had started his manovour, moving into the left lane, beleving the OP would maintain their course/line ie secondary position and may have been going left, for all the van driver knew, not as though OP was signalling to move to the right from the bus lane that mergers to a left turn only lane.  

The van crossed the solid white line approx a meter from where the bus lane ends, possibly due to the longer stationary queuing traffic ahead and to position behind the red car in the left lane, if he'd waited to the end of the line he probably would of got stuck between the left and middle lanes causing further issues for all other road users. 

The beep of the horn could of been for anything.

I'm genuinly not trolling, yes the van driver could of waited in his current lane until the OP had safetly pased, however given how busy the road appears, there could be loads more cyclists behind also doing the same ie using the left lane to filter prior to switching at the junction, which then means motors going straight on, get stuck behind the van.

It comes down to planning design and road layout again, if the bus lane was shorter or didn't exist, it would allow vehicles to get in lane earlier.

Personall I'd be filtering through on the right to avoid the left hook. 

 

No, I did not have 'blinkers' on and no, I was not 'on autopilot'.  Both are ways to get killed, and on my commute into and out of London, I am insanely focused at all times.    I knew exactly what was going on ahead of me and  - if you'll note the frequent 'lifesaver' glances to my left and right - behind me.    

 

Quote:

if he'd waited to the end of the line he probably would of got stuck between the left and middle lanes causing further issues for all other road users.

Diddums.  

Tough shit.   He waits.  He doesn't barge in.  

You may not be trolling, but you're not that bright.  

I was on your side until that last sentence. I thought AndyH01 made a fair and honest account of what can be seen on the video... from his perspective. Pity you had to lower yourself in that way. 

kevvjj wrote:

cycle.london wrote:

AndyH01 wrote:

I've edited my orginal replies several times prior to posting and will summarise by saying personally for me, all this highlights is the widening of the gulf between various road user groups. It fuels this current climete of motors v cycles v pedesrians, with the colsutation on potentail law reforms to "protect the most vounlurable road users" I'm not sure if this example strenghens or weakens our arguments.

I don't know the road layout other than from what I can see on the video, which I have reviewed several times. I would suggest the first incident with the VW van, is an example of poor road planning, design and layout. Effectivley the cycle lane appears to be a left hand turn only lane, as the VW was already in the correct lane for the left turn, his late indication was a courtesey to the other road users, including cyclists, using the cycle lane that may indeed be going straight on and therefore by using the green tarmac "cycle lane" actually puts cyclists in the wrong lane, for going straigt on. Personally I would be in the middle lane, in this type of situation and not use the "cycle lane" as though I was in my car..

As I say, I'm not from London and AFAIK, use of cycle lanes are optional, not mandontry.

The second incident with the white van, sorry but I am struggling a bit with the preception and I'm assuming out of all the other close passess submitted to Road cc for consideration on the day, this being the worse example.

I appreicate the OP says they've not been on the bike for awhile and fatigued after 18 miles, but knows the road layout and route well and usually takes the last 3rd of the lane but on this ocassion was more in secondary.

Personally I think the OP had the blinkers on/auto pilot a bit and was following the cyclist in front, with the gray T shirt and black ruksack, who being in front of the van had moved into the middle lane, causing the OP to drift a bit to the right, to their normal position at this juction, at the same time as the van driver had started his manovour, moving into the left lane, beleving the OP would maintain their course/line ie secondary position and may have been going left, for all the van driver knew, not as though OP was signalling to move to the right from the bus lane that mergers to a left turn only lane.  

The van crossed the solid white line approx a meter from where the bus lane ends, possibly due to the longer stationary queuing traffic ahead and to position behind the red car in the left lane, if he'd waited to the end of the line he probably would of got stuck between the left and middle lanes causing further issues for all other road users. 

The beep of the horn could of been for anything.

I'm genuinly not trolling, yes the van driver could of waited in his current lane until the OP had safetly pased, however given how busy the road appears, there could be loads more cyclists behind also doing the same ie using the left lane to filter prior to switching at the junction, which then means motors going straight on, get stuck behind the van.

It comes down to planning design and road layout again, if the bus lane was shorter or didn't exist, it would allow vehicles to get in lane earlier.

Personall I'd be filtering through on the right to avoid the left hook. 

 

No, I did not have 'blinkers' on and no, I was not 'on autopilot'.  Both are ways to get killed, and on my commute into and out of London, I am insanely focused at all times.    I knew exactly what was going on ahead of me and  - if you'll note the frequent 'lifesaver' glances to my left and right - behind me.    

 

Quote:

if he'd waited to the end of the line he probably would of got stuck between the left and middle lanes causing further issues for all other road users.

Diddums.  

Tough shit.   He waits.  He doesn't barge in.  

You may not be trolling, but you're not that bright.  

I was on your side until that last sentence. I thought AndyH01 made a fair and honest account of what can be seen on the video... from his perspective. Pity you had to lower yourself in that way. 

'AndyH01' essentially forwarded the driver's narrative that 'if only the cyclist had got out of the way', then none of this would have happened.   I don't call that 'fair and honest' and I don't call it very intelligent.

Sorry. 

cycle.london wrote:

kevvjj wrote:

cycle.london wrote:

AndyH01 wrote:

I've edited my orginal replies several times prior to posting and will summarise by saying personally for me, all this highlights is the widening of the gulf between various road user groups. It fuels this current climete of motors v cycles v pedesrians, with the colsutation on potentail law reforms to "protect the most vounlurable road users" I'm not sure if this example strenghens or weakens our arguments.

I don't know the road layout other than from what I can see on the video, which I have reviewed several times. I would suggest the first incident with the VW van, is an example of poor road planning, design and layout. Effectivley the cycle lane appears to be a left hand turn only lane, as the VW was already in the correct lane for the left turn, his late indication was a courtesey to the other road users, including cyclists, using the cycle lane that may indeed be going straight on and therefore by using the green tarmac "cycle lane" actually puts cyclists in the wrong lane, for going straigt on. Personally I would be in the middle lane, in this type of situation and not use the "cycle lane" as though I was in my car..

As I say, I'm not from London and AFAIK, use of cycle lanes are optional, not mandontry.

The second incident with the white van, sorry but I am struggling a bit with the preception and I'm assuming out of all the other close passess submitted to Road cc for consideration on the day, this being the worse example.

I appreicate the OP says they've not been on the bike for awhile and fatigued after 18 miles, but knows the road layout and route well and usually takes the last 3rd of the lane but on this ocassion was more in secondary.

Personally I think the OP had the blinkers on/auto pilot a bit and was following the cyclist in front, with the gray T shirt and black ruksack, who being in front of the van had moved into the middle lane, causing the OP to drift a bit to the right, to their normal position at this juction, at the same time as the van driver had started his manovour, moving into the left lane, beleving the OP would maintain their course/line ie secondary position and may have been going left, for all the van driver knew, not as though OP was signalling to move to the right from the bus lane that mergers to a left turn only lane.  

The van crossed the solid white line approx a meter from where the bus lane ends, possibly due to the longer stationary queuing traffic ahead and to position behind the red car in the left lane, if he'd waited to the end of the line he probably would of got stuck between the left and middle lanes causing further issues for all other road users. 

The beep of the horn could of been for anything.

I'm genuinly not trolling, yes the van driver could of waited in his current lane until the OP had safetly pased, however given how busy the road appears, there could be loads more cyclists behind also doing the same ie using the left lane to filter prior to switching at the junction, which then means motors going straight on, get stuck behind the van.

It comes down to planning design and road layout again, if the bus lane was shorter or didn't exist, it would allow vehicles to get in lane earlier.

Personall I'd be filtering through on the right to avoid the left hook. 

 

No, I did not have 'blinkers' on and no, I was not 'on autopilot'.  Both are ways to get killed, and on my commute into and out of London, I am insanely focused at all times.    I knew exactly what was going on ahead of me and  - if you'll note the frequent 'lifesaver' glances to my left and right - behind me.    

 

Quote:

if he'd waited to the end of the line he probably would of got stuck between the left and middle lanes causing further issues for all other road users.

Diddums.  

Tough shit.   He waits.  He doesn't barge in.  

You may not be trolling, but you're not that bright.  

I was on your side until that last sentence. I thought AndyH01 made a fair and honest account of what can be seen on the video... from his perspective. Pity you had to lower yourself in that way. 

 

'AndyH01' essentially forwarded the driver's narrative that 'if only the cyclist had got out of the way', then none of this would have happened.   I don't call that 'fair and honest' and I don't call it very intelligent.

Sorry. 

That's not at all how I read AndyH01's contribution to this discussion. Methinks you are being just a tad precious now. it's time to accept that we all have differing opinions and if you are going to post videos then at least be prepared to accept different viewpoints without resorting to paraphrasing them in your responses.

kevvjj wrote:

it's time to accept that we all have differing opinions

I wouldn't have it any other way, guv'.  But I do reserve the right to point out when people are being utter dicks.  

kevvjj wrote:

it's time to accept that we all have differing opinions

No it isn't.

FluffyKittenofTindalos wrote:

kevvjj wrote:

it's time to accept that we all have differing opinions

 

No it isn't.

Idiots!

AndyH01' essentially forwarded the driver's narrative that 'if only the cyclist had got out of the way', then none of this would have happened.   I don't call that 'fair and honest' and I don't call it very intelligent.

Sorry. 

[/quote]

No I'm I'm not saying "cyclist should get out the way" it's contextual and in this particular video from what I've seen the situation appears to of been further avoided.

I don't know, as others pointed out, whether any cyclists were behind the OP or whether the OP had moved into his blind spot but the van driver had slowed and allowed the OP to pass.  

In context it seems a non incident, yes it shouldn't have happened but given the layout of the road it is a kind of a pinch point.

As I say I'm lucky not to live/cycle in London and I'd be in the right lane. 

Why when we have disagreements do we have to use insults and assertain someone has low intellgence? 

cycle.london wrote:

kevvjj wrote:

cycle.london wrote:

AndyH01 wrote:

I've edited my orginal replies several times prior to posting and will summarise by saying personally for me, all this highlights is the widening of the gulf between various road user groups. It fuels this current climete of motors v cycles v pedesrians, with the colsutation on potentail law reforms to "protect the most vounlurable road users" I'm not sure if this example strenghens or weakens our arguments.

I don't know the road layout other than from what I can see on the video, which I have reviewed several times. I would suggest the first incident with the VW van, is an example of poor road planning, design and layout. Effectivley the cycle lane appears to be a left hand turn only lane, as the VW was already in the correct lane for the left turn, his late indication was a courtesey to the other road users, including cyclists, using the cycle lane that may indeed be going straight on and therefore by using the green tarmac "cycle lane" actually puts cyclists in the wrong lane, for going straigt on. Personally I would be in the middle lane, in this type of situation and not use the "cycle lane" as though I was in my car..

As I say, I'm not from London and AFAIK, use of cycle lanes are optional, not mandontry.

The second incident with the white van, sorry but I am struggling a bit with the preception and I'm assuming out of all the other close passess submitted to Road cc for consideration on the day, this being the worse example.

I appreicate the OP says they've not been on the bike for awhile and fatigued after 18 miles, but knows the road layout and route well and usually takes the last 3rd of the lane but on this ocassion was more in secondary.

Personally I think the OP had the blinkers on/auto pilot a bit and was following the cyclist in front, with the gray T shirt and black ruksack, who being in front of the van had moved into the middle lane, causing the OP to drift a bit to the right, to their normal position at this juction, at the same time as the van driver had started his manovour, moving into the left lane, beleving the OP would maintain their course/line ie secondary position and may have been going left, for all the van driver knew, not as though OP was signalling to move to the right from the bus lane that mergers to a left turn only lane.  

The van crossed the solid white line approx a meter from where the bus lane ends, possibly due to the longer stationary queuing traffic ahead and to position behind the red car in the left lane, if he'd waited to the end of the line he probably would of got stuck between the left and middle lanes causing further issues for all other road users. 

The beep of the horn could of been for anything.

I'm genuinly not trolling, yes the van driver could of waited in his current lane until the OP had safetly pased, however given how busy the road appears, there could be loads more cyclists behind also doing the same ie using the left lane to filter prior to switching at the junction, which then means motors going straight on, get stuck behind the van.

It comes down to planning design and road layout again, if the bus lane was shorter or didn't exist, it would allow vehicles to get in lane earlier.

Personall I'd be filtering through on the right to avoid the left hook. 

 

No, I did not have 'blinkers' on and no, I was not 'on autopilot'.  Both are ways to get killed, and on my commute into and out of London, I am insanely focused at all times.    I knew exactly what was going on ahead of me and  - if you'll note the frequent 'lifesaver' glances to my left and right - behind me.    

 

Quote:

if he'd waited to the end of the line he probably would of got stuck between the left and middle lanes causing further issues for all other road users.

Diddums.  

Tough shit.   He waits.  He doesn't barge in.  

You may not be trolling, but you're not that bright.  

I was on your side until that last sentence. I thought AndyH01 made a fair and honest account of what can be seen on the video... from his perspective. Pity you had to lower yourself in that way. 

 

'AndyH01' essentially forwarded the driver's narrative that 'if only the cyclist had got out of the way', then none of this would have happened.   I don't call that 'fair and honest' and I don't call it very intelligent.

Sorry. 

And still anything but succinct.  Prolix is neither intelligent nor proof of your case.

No, I did not have 'blinkers' on and no, I was not 'on autopilot'.  Both are ways to get killed, and on my commute into and out of London, I am insanely focused at all times.    I knew exactly what was going on ahead of me and  - if you'll note the frequent 'lifesaver' glances to my left and right - behind me.    

Quote:

if he'd waited to the end of the line he probably would of got stuck between the left and middle lanes causing further issues for all other road users.

Diddums.  

Tough shit.   He waits.  He doesn't barge in.  

You may not be trolling, but you're not that bright.  

[/quote]

Yes I had noted the few glances to the left and right and in my inital though would suggest you'd at kleast subconciously registered the van prior to it being in front of you, although you state the first you knew was when the van was moving to the left at the same time as you moving to the right. 

This is the issue and there is no point in being dead right, selfish attitude of he doesn't barge in.....speaks volumes to me and again comes down to this us v them attitude. Sometimes defensive riding/driving means allowing traffic in. It's funny to watch at merge in lanes pinch points brings road users into confrontation, whether car on car/lorry or other.

Again sometimes it's down to the road layout, which can't always be helped due to the limited space available. 

As I said depending on everything else around, especially behind, may not just effect you or the van but many other road users, like as I said, given on the position in front, it could have knock on effects behind which we may be oblivious to. 

Given your riding position futher up with the VW and from your prespective that you gave way, when in fact you're in the wrong lane I'd suggest it is you Sir that is not bright and again at the junction with the van you are also in the wrong lane just because bikes are more agile you can't have cake and eat it that is you can't complain when someone cuts you up but it's ok to chop lanes when it suits. 

As I said the preception is unclear and there seems to be enough space, the van was going slowly and did end up waiting for you to pass prior to continuing. In the grand scheme of things I've seen plenty worse.

I wasn't there or involved and as I said cameras can distort the proximity but in cold light of day without emotion, it just doesn't seem an issue especially if as you say you was aware you should of been able to plan/prepared better and have avoided by being you're usual road position earlier or gone round the back of it. 

It would be interesting to hear from the driver and see any footage they may have to better understand but in reality if I was looking at from the company points of view as requested, I'd find it difficult to do anything other than to ask the driver for their opinion. It could also make me think as an operator that cyclist just moan so the next more serious near miss is completly ignored. 

Just a couple of points here.. 

Quote:

Yes I had noted the few glances to the left and right and in my inital though would suggest you'd at kleast subconciously registered the van prior to it being in front of you, although you state the first you knew was when the van was moving to the left at the same time as you moving to the right.

I did 'register' the van.  I did not see it, because like everyone else, my peripheral vision is not there to see but to 'note' (or 'perceive', or whatever you choose to call it). 

A vehicle coming up behind me in lane 2, and I'm somehow at fault because I didn't 'know' that he was going to turn left?  

You're having a laugh. 

Quote:

Given your riding position futher up with the VW and from your prespective that you gave way, when in fact you're in the wrong lane

Erm, no.  I was not 'in the wrong lane'.  I suggest you watch the video again.  I was in lane 1 - the left-hand lane and the correct lane - and as I approached the traffic signals, a cycle lane begins.  I move into that cycle lane.  Again - the correct lane.  I pass several vehicles which are on my right, which again, is entirely lawful and legal.  Then I notice a VW van, and I think, 'Hmm.. he's not accelerating very fast, I bet you he's turning left'.  And so he was.  Now, I was in my own lane, and I could have gone stright ahead, forcing the VW driver to wait before he turned left.  But I had come up behind him, not the other way around, so I let him turn left.  Again, I was not in the wrong lane.  

Quote:

again at the junction with the van you are also in the wrong lane

It's because of shit like that that I identified you either as a troll or as a bit thick. Watch the video again.  I am in the left-hand lane i.e. the bus lane.  The correct lane.  As I approach the junction, the left lane in effect 'splits' and there is a new lane which starts.  That new lane is the left lane of three, and it is the only one which is designated as a left turn.  That left turn lane did not exist at the point the driver of the DEBA van overtook me.  So how come I was in the 'wrong lane', genius?  Which lane was I supposed to be in?    There were at that point only two lanes - the left-hand one and the right-hand one.  I was in the left-hand one.   If this was the wrong lane in your mind, then you think I should have been in the right-hand lane?  

Quote:

just because bikes are more agile you can't have cake and eat it that is you can't complain when someone cuts you up but it's ok to chop lanes when it suits.

FFS, this has to be a wind-up. 

I did not 'chop' lanes.  I stayed in the same lane the entire time.  

cycle.london wrote:

Just a couple of points here.. 

Quote:

Yes I had noted the few glances to the left and right and in my inital though would suggest you'd at kleast subconciously registered the van prior to it being in front of you, although you state the first you knew was when the van was moving to the left at the same time as you moving to the right.

I did 'register' the van.  I did not see it, because like everyone else, my peripheral vision is not there to see but to 'note' (or 'perceive', or whatever you choose to call it). 

A vehicle coming up behind me in lane 2, and I'm somehow at fault because I didn't 'know' that he was going to turn left?  

No, I'm not saying anyone is at fault, as near miss no acident so don't need to aportion blame?

You're having a laugh. 

Quote:

Given your riding position futher up with the VW and from your prespective that you gave way, when in fact you're in the wrong lane

Erm, no.  I was not 'in the wrong lane'.  I suggest you watch the video again.  I was in lane 1 - the left-hand lane and the correct lane - and as I approached the traffic signals, a cycle lane begins.  I move into that cycle lane.  Again - the correct lane.  I pass several vehicles which are on my right, which again, is entirely lawful and legal.  Then I notice a VW van, and I think, 'Hmm.. he's not accelerating very fast, I bet you he's turning left'.  And so he was.  Now, I was in my own lane, and I could have gone stright ahead, forcing the VW driver to wait before he turned left.  But I had come up behind him, not the other way around, so I let him turn left.  Again, I was not in the wrong lane. 

To me the left lane appears to be a left hand lane for motors to turn left and the second lane is for vehicles going straight on? If vehciles are in the left hand turn where else are they going to be going? 

The green cycle lane is the feeder lane to the ASL box at the light, to allow filtering to the front of traffic for better visability in certain situations, prior to changes to the HWC etc where you can now enter the ASL regardless of filter lane. The green cycle path also continues to bear left around the corner, note no green cycle path ever go straight on at junctions as no one has right of way unless of course traffic controlled. Over the junction, the what was a left hand turn lane, becomes a bus lane.

If you seriously beleive you have the right of way to go straight on when in a left hand turning lane, you are going to get seriously injured or worse. 

 

Quote:

again at the junction with the van you are also in the wrong lane

It's because of shit like that that I identified you either as a troll or as a bit thick. Watch the video again.  I am in the left-hand lane i.e. the bus lane.  The correct lane.  As I approach the junction, the left lane in effect 'splits' and there is a new lane which starts.  That new lane is the left lane of three, and it is the only one which is designated as a left turn.  That left turn lane did not exist at the point the driver of the DEBA van overtook me.  So how come I was in the 'wrong lane', genius?  Which lane was I supposed to be in?    There were at that point only two lanes - the left-hand one and the right-hand one.  I was in the left-hand one.   If this was the wrong lane in your mind, then you think I should have been in the right-hand lane?  

Agreed you are in a bus lane near the time of white van, which ends before the 3 lane split and juction, to allow traffic in the right lane (that can't use the bus lane) to make a left turn and also road users using this lane should also move to the right if going straight on.

At the point near to where the van moves to the left, it appears there there is only the two lanes and shortly after the incident that it then becomes 3 lanes. You started off in this left lane, but in front of the van you have moved to the right, into effectivly the middle lane.

Yes, as I tend to get in lane earlier I would be in the right non bus lane approaching prior to the 3 way split which allows other road user to see I'm going straight over the jucttion if going straight on and you said you do normally ride fairly close to the next lane. Whereas if in bus lane which has ended I'd expect you to go left.

Out of interest, which lane would a bus use if going straight on at that juction?

Quote:

just because bikes are more agile you can't have cake and eat it that is you can't complain when someone cuts you up but it's ok to chop lanes when it suits.

FFS, this has to be a wind-up. 

I did not 'chop' lanes.  I stayed in the same lane the entire time.  

No it appears you moved to the right, to the middle lane, in front of the white van.The bus lane you was in had ended.

AndyH01 wrote:

cycle.london wrote:

Just a couple of points here.. 

Quote:

Yes I had noted the few glances to the left and right and in my inital though would suggest you'd at kleast subconciously registered the van prior to it being in front of you, although you state the first you knew was when the van was moving to the left at the same time as you moving to the right.

I did 'register' the van.  I did not see it, because like everyone else, my peripheral vision is not there to see but to 'note' (or 'perceive', or whatever you choose to call it). 

A vehicle coming up behind me in lane 2, and I'm somehow at fault because I didn't 'know' that he was going to turn left?  

No, I'm not saying anyone is at fault, as near miss no acident so don't need to aportion blame?

You're having a laugh. 

Quote:

Given your riding position futher up with the VW and from your prespective that you gave way, when in fact you're in the wrong lane

Erm, no.  I was not 'in the wrong lane'.  I suggest you watch the video again.  I was in lane 1 - the left-hand lane and the correct lane - and as I approached the traffic signals, a cycle lane begins.  I move into that cycle lane.  Again - the correct lane.  I pass several vehicles which are on my right, which again, is entirely lawful and legal.  Then I notice a VW van, and I think, 'Hmm.. he's not accelerating very fast, I bet you he's turning left'.  And so he was.  Now, I was in my own lane, and I could have gone stright ahead, forcing the VW driver to wait before he turned left.  But I had come up behind him, not the other way around, so I let him turn left.  Again, I was not in the wrong lane. 

To me the left lane appears to be a left hand lane for motors to turn left and the second lane is for vehicles going straight on? If vehciles are in the left hand turn where else are they going to be going? 

The green cycle lane is the feeder lane to the ASL box at the light, to allow filtering to the front of traffic for better visability in certain situations, prior to changes to the HWC etc where you can now enter the ASL regardless of filter lane. The green cycle path also continues to bear left around the corner, note no green cycle path ever go straight on at junctions as no one has right of way unless of course traffic controlled. Over the junction, the what was a left hand turn lane, becomes a bus lane.

If you seriously beleive you have the right of way to go straight on when in a left hand turning lane, you are going to get seriously injured or worse. 

 

Quote:

again at the junction with the van you are also in the wrong lane

It's because of shit like that that I identified you either as a troll or as a bit thick. Watch the video again.  I am in the left-hand lane i.e. the bus lane.  The correct lane.  As I approach the junction, the left lane in effect 'splits' and there is a new lane which starts.  That new lane is the left lane of three, and it is the only one which is designated as a left turn.  That left turn lane did not exist at the point the driver of the DEBA van overtook me.  So how come I was in the 'wrong lane', genius?  Which lane was I supposed to be in?    There were at that point only two lanes - the left-hand one and the right-hand one.  I was in the left-hand one.   If this was the wrong lane in your mind, then you think I should have been in the right-hand lane?  

Agreed you are in a bus lane near the time of white van, which ends before the 3 lane split and juction, to allow traffic in the right lane (that can't use the bus lane) to make a left turn and also road users using this lane should also move to the right if going straight on.

At the point near to where the van moves to the left, it appears there there is only the two lanes and shortly after the incident that it then becomes 3 lanes. You started off in this left lane, but in front of the van you have moved to the right, into effectivly the middle lane.

Yes, as I tend to get in lane earlier I would be in the right non bus lane approaching prior to the 3 way split which allows other road user to see I'm going straight over the jucttion if going straight on and you said you do normally ride fairly close to the next lane. Whereas if in bus lane which has ended I'd expect you to go left.

Out of interest, which lane would a bus use if going straight on at that juction?

Quote:

just because bikes are more agile you can't have cake and eat it that is you can't complain when someone cuts you up but it's ok to chop lanes when it suits.

FFS, this has to be a wind-up. 

I did not 'chop' lanes.  I stayed in the same lane the entire time.  

No it appears you moved to the right, to the middle lane, in front of the white van.The bus lane you was in had ended.

I can only assume you're watching a different set of videos than the rest of us.  I just went back and watched them again - forward camera and back camera.  The cyclist doesn't deviate.    One lane to the left and he'd be on the pavement. One lane to the right and he'd be directly in front of the van.   The only time I see him deviate within his own lane is when he dips a bit to the left to go around the van which has cut in front of him. 

He doesn't move to the right.  When the van passes him, there ARe only two lanes. 

There are a lot of videos up here where there is ambiguity. This isn't one of them. The driver of the van was 100% in the wrong. 

I can only assume you're watching a different set of videos than the rest of us.  I just went back and watched them again - forward camera and back camera.  The cyclist doesn't deviate.    One lane to the left and he'd be on the pavement. One lane to the right and he'd be directly in front of the van.   The only time I see him deviate within his own lane is when he dips a bit to the left to go around the van which has cut in front of him. 

He doesn't move to the right.  When the van passes him, there ARe only two lanes. 

There are a lot of videos up here where there is ambiguity. This isn't one of them. The driver of the van was 100% in the wrong. 

[/quote]

Must be as I can only see the front video the one with a vw van and then a white van, no back camera video that I can see? 

Sorry, duplicate.

AndyH01 wrote:

 

No it appears you moved to the right, to the middle lane, in front of the white van.The bus lane you was in had ended.

How do you figure that?  The van driver starts crossing a solid white line at 06secs.  The cyclist at that point is still in their original lane.  The line is still solid till about 09secs.

FluffyKittenofTindalos wrote:

AndyH01 wrote:

 

No it appears you moved to the right, to the middle lane, in front of the white van.The bus lane you was in had ended.

 

 

How do you figure that?  The van driver starts crossing a solid white line at 06secs.  The cyclist at that point is still in their original lane.  The line is still solid till about 09secs.

 

That's exactly what I see. The bus lane 'widens' to form the left lane and the middle lane. Cyclist stays in middle lane, where he was. Driver cuts across from what is now the right lane, across the middle lane, aiming for the left lane.  Cyclist has to brake and go around him.  How the devil does that make the cylist at fault?

Legs_Eleven_Worcester wrote:

FluffyKittenofTindalos wrote:

AndyH01 wrote:

 

No it appears you moved to the right, to the middle lane, in front of the white van.The bus lane you was in had ended.

 

 

How do you figure that?  The van driver starts crossing a solid white line at 06secs.  The cyclist at that point is still in their original lane.  The line is still solid till about 09secs.

 

That's exactly what I see. The bus lane 'widens' to form the left lane and the middle lane. Cyclist stays in middle lane, where he was. Driver cuts across from what is now the right lane, across the middle lane, aiming for the left lane.  Cyclist has to brake and go around him.  How the devil does that make the cylist at fault?

The van moves over prior to the three lanes, it's only two lanes further back-  bus lane which the driver cut into about a meter prior to when he technically should and the main lstraight on lane for rest of traffic not able to use bus lane. 

I've not said that it's the cyclist fault. 

Just before Tesco express as the van is indicating, assuming op is in line with the guy with grey tshirt and rucksac there is only two lanes, OP is near the curb, after the incident at about 3.22 on the full version, you can almost see the line that's going to be taken by the two cyclist in front; the grey tshirt and the one further up to the right ahead of where the lane splits with the yellow bag compared to the other cyclist, closer to the left who one assumes is indeed going left at the juction. 

At aprox 3.25 in the full version video if he had stayed on the previous line he'd be closer to the curb behind the red car and the cyclist with the blue helmet but no he's in the middle lane suggesting he's moved to the right.