Video: Cycling family in plea to top cop on danger on Cornwall's roads

BehindTheBikesheds wrote:

The Irish government looked at all previous distance passing laws or countries that were going to undertake such this year.

Minnesota which implemented the 3Fl passing law years ago has on average cited THREE motorists per year, Florida is somwhat better at 300, oh hang on that's 300 since 2006!! (so actually not that much better), policing in the 20 US states that has a passing law is pretty much zero as mentioned in the Irish study.

The study found that between 1990 and 2014 there was no positive impact on cycling safety due to mandatory passing laws. The authors go on to state that at best a minimum passing law MIGHT save 1 cyclist death per 20.4 months, at worst this could actually have a negative effect of 2.67 more deaths over the same timescale.

NSW has seen no improvement in injuries and millions of dollars of fines for no helmets, minimum passing infractions, less than half a dozen over the same period.

Have a look at the cycling injury rate rises in Spanish cities in the last few years, the info is there if you look.

Here's the irish study http://www.rsa.ie/Documents/Consultations/Cycling%20MPD/Examining%20the%...

 

No it's not.

don simon wrote:

BehindTheBikesheds wrote:

The Irish government looked at all previous distance passing laws or countries that were going to undertake such this year.

Minnesota which implemented the 3Fl passing law years ago has on average cited THREE motorists per year, Florida is somwhat better at 300, oh hang on that's 300 since 2006!! (so actually not that much better), policing in the 20 US states that has a passing law is pretty much zero as mentioned in the Irish study.

The study found that between 1990 and 2014 there was no positive impact on cycling safety due to mandatory passing laws. The authors go on to state that at best a minimum passing law MIGHT save 1 cyclist death per 20.4 months, at worst this could actually have a negative effect of 2.67 more deaths over the same timescale.

NSW has seen no improvement in injuries and millions of dollars of fines for no helmets, minimum passing infractions, less than half a dozen over the same period.

Have a look at the cycling injury rate rises in Spanish cities in the last few years, the info is there if you look.

Here's the irish study http://www.rsa.ie/Documents/Consultations/Cycling%20MPD/Examining%20the%...

 

No it's not.

Hahahaha, ok, let's see you worm your way around these stats then. No, didn't think so. Since the 1.5m passing laws and increases in helmet wearing cycling injuries have gone UP.

Let's see you counter that then ya mug!

BehindTheBikesheds wrote:

don simon wrote:

BehindTheBikesheds wrote:

The Irish government looked at all previous distance passing laws or countries that were going to undertake such this year.

Minnesota which implemented the 3Fl passing law years ago has on average cited THREE motorists per year, Florida is somwhat better at 300, oh hang on that's 300 since 2006!! (so actually not that much better), policing in the 20 US states that has a passing law is pretty much zero as mentioned in the Irish study.

The study found that between 1990 and 2014 there was no positive impact on cycling safety due to mandatory passing laws. The authors go on to state that at best a minimum passing law MIGHT save 1 cyclist death per 20.4 months, at worst this could actually have a negative effect of 2.67 more deaths over the same timescale.

NSW has seen no improvement in injuries and millions of dollars of fines for no helmets, minimum passing infractions, less than half a dozen over the same period.

Have a look at the cycling injury rate rises in Spanish cities in the last few years, the info is there if you look.

Here's the irish study http://www.rsa.ie/Documents/Consultations/Cycling%20MPD/Examining%20the%...

 

No it's not.

Hahahaha, ok, let's see you worm your way around these stats then. No, didn't think so. Since the 1.5m passing laws and increases in helmet wearing cycling injuries have gone UP.

Let's see you counter that then ya mug!

1. Source.

2. That isn't in the article you linked to in your previous post (so no worming needed).

3. I've already stated that there has been a huge increase in cycling in Madrid and probably throughout Spain, so no real surprise there that there is an increase in accidents. When I was riding Madrid, I'd maybe see two other cyclists in the city on a good day.

4 What it doesn't show is that it's more dangerous than the UK, as is your rather ridiculous claim.

5. It doesn't state anything about the type of accident, so no relationship between MPD and those numbers.

6. It says nothing about Spanish cyclists being harrassed in cities, as you clearly believe is true. Experience says the opposite is true. I'm sure mis-reading trumps experience.

7. When will you thick cunts learn to stop putting little insults at the end of an otherwise sensible post (apart from the bollocksy bits listed above)? It'll just end in tears. Leave it out, OK?

8. Want more?

Provide the full document and source or stop making yourself look silly.

Yorkshire wallet wrote:

BTBS has a point. You can wax on about aggro brit drivers all you want but loads of European roads are statistically worse for fatalities.

I remember driving in Italy and it was horrendous. Nobody had the slightest bit of patience at all, even the women seemed aggressive beyond belief just to get onto a roundabout or try and force you onto one, blasting on the horn in crappy Fiats. Can't imagine them suddenly calmy down because 2 wheels were blocking the path.

And into this mayhem go grannies doing their shopping by bike. I can't 8magine how they do it.

slappop wrote:

Britain needs a strict liability law (motorist is automatically presumed to be at fault in accident with a cyclist) as used in the Netherlands, Denmark and Switzerland (where I live). Good luck getting the Daily Mail to approve that, though...

https://www.cycling-embassy.org.uk/wiki/dutch-cycle-because-strict-liabi...

Absolutely.

Also, it'd make a lot of sense if we looked at the European cities that have low rates of traffic incidents/KSIs and copy what they do.

It's really simple, but instead our so-called government pisses around with consultations on things that affect the smallest demographics and ignores the larger issues. If only there was some way we could vote them out and not get someone else equally useless.

Jimmy Ray Will wrote:

The problem in cornwall is that the road infrastruture is fairly limited (hence why you find cyclists on A roads) and traffic levels vary greatly depending on the season.

 

Limited infrastructure and traffic levels aren't the problem. Lack of consideration for others is the problem.

thehairs1970 wrote:

In defence of our police - Devon has more road miles than most counties in England. Couple this with chronic underfunding by the government and you will not see traffic cops out on the roads. No, I am not a policeman.

The lack of traffic cops is because it was decided to police the roads using number plate recognition cameras and yellow boxes on poles instead of having actual police on the roads, it's not a funding issue that they aren't there anymore,it's one of deciding those force numbers are better used elsewhere. That Devon & Cornwall are a combined force to begin with, is an issue that's been rumbling on for 50years,and their focus has always been on the A30 to the virtual exclusion of any other road.

joeegg wrote:

   I ride in Spain for nearly 6 months every year.The routes around my house become busy with cyclists every weekend and i never hear of confrontations between cyclists and motorists. The local council has put up signs along these routes advising motorists of the safe passing distance of 1.5 metres. This is overwhelmingly respected.In fact,the cyclists ride in groups virtually blocking the road and the only people i hear complaining about that are British drivers. Is this cultural as the Spanish just seem calm and relaxed in their vehicles compared to the " angry " brigade we have here.

I lived in France for over 20 years and you are right, it is a cultural thing and in the UK there is culture of the car owning the road. The recent initiative by the governement only highlights arnd encourages it! 

iandusud wrote:

joeegg wrote:

   I ride in Spain for nearly 6 months every year.The routes around my house become busy with cyclists every weekend and i never hear of confrontations between cyclists and motorists. The local council has put up signs along these routes advising motorists of the safe passing distance of 1.5 metres. This is overwhelmingly respected.In fact,the cyclists ride in groups virtually blocking the road and the only people i hear complaining about that are British drivers. Is this cultural as the Spanish just seem calm and relaxed in their vehicles compared to the " angry " brigade we have here.

 

I lived in France for over 20 years and you are right, it is a cultural thing and in the UK there is culture of the car owning the road. The recent initiative by the governement only highlights arnd encourages it! 

I was riding in the Pyranees recently and was on a main road that, in the UK, would have felt pretty dangerous.  I didn't feel vulnerable at all; the French just seem more relaxed with cyclists.

iandusud wrote:

joeegg wrote:

   I ride in Spain for nearly 6 months every year.The routes around my house become busy with cyclists every weekend and i never hear of confrontations between cyclists and motorists. The local council has put up signs along these routes advising motorists of the safe passing distance of 1.5 metres. This is overwhelmingly respected.In fact,the cyclists ride in groups virtually blocking the road and the only people i hear complaining about that are British drivers. Is this cultural as the Spanish just seem calm and relaxed in their vehicles compared to the " angry " brigade we have here.

 

I lived in France for over 20 years and you are right, it is a cultural thing and in the UK there is culture of the car owning the road. The recent initiative by the governement only highlights arnd encourages it! 

The reason I don't tour in this country is because of all the shit drivers.  I won't even ride to and from the ferry port because I don't  want the first and last things I remember about the holiday to be stress and anger from crap driving.

I intend to retire for France for various reasons but a significant one is the infinitely better cycling experience over there.    

joeegg wrote:

In fact,the cyclists ride in groups virtually blocking the road and the only people i hear complaining about that are British drivers. Is this cultural as the Spanish just seem calm and relaxed in their vehicles compared to the " angry " brigade we have here.

Similar experience cycling in France, just far more respect for other humans and a relaxed live-and-let-live approach to getting around. Far better dedicated infrastructure and the more visible presence of - and enforcement by - the gendarmerie probably helps.

Yorkshire wallet wrote:

I ended up swerving around the front of his car and shouting "you fat fC@£%ng c£nt" at his bald head.

Which is why I could never, ever use a GoPro while cycling...

joeegg wrote:

   I ride in Spain for nearly 6 months every year.The routes around my house become busy with cyclists every weekend and i never hear of confrontations between cyclists and motorists. The local council has put up signs along these routes advising motorists of the safe passing distance of 1.5 metres. This is overwhelmingly respected.In fact,the cyclists ride in groups virtually blocking the road and the only people i hear complaining about that are British drivers. Is this cultural as the Spanish just seem calm and relaxed in their vehicles compared to the " angry " brigade we have here.

And yet the Spanish cycling deaths per billion miles is worse than the UK, the 1.5m passing rule has not changed a thing in terms of cycling injuries and people are still harassed in Spanish cities where cycling injuries have been on the rise for some time. Helmets and hi-vis compulsary on roads outside cities even during the day.

Anecdote does not equal data, sorry but the facts speak for themselves, you should check them out, France is also equally not as great as some people think, Germany same.

Yes there are in many instancs more respect but the overall picture is no better than the UK for cycling deaths.

BehindTheBikesheds wrote:

joeegg wrote:

   I ride in Spain for nearly 6 months every year.The routes around my house become busy with cyclists every weekend and i never hear of confrontations between cyclists and motorists. The local council has put up signs along these routes advising motorists of the safe passing distance of 1.5 metres. This is overwhelmingly respected.In fact,the cyclists ride in groups virtually blocking the road and the only people i hear complaining about that are British drivers. Is this cultural as the Spanish just seem calm and relaxed in their vehicles compared to the " angry " brigade we have here.

And yet the Spanish cycling deaths per billion miles is worse than the UK, the 1.5m passing rule has not changed a thing in terms of cycling injuries and people are still harassed in Spanish cities where cycling injuries have been on the rise for some time. Helmets and hi-vis compulsary on roads outside cities even during the day.

Anecdote does not equal data, sorry but the facts speak for themselves, you should check them out, France is also equally not as great as some people think, Germany same.

Yes there are in many instancs more respect but the overall picture is no better than the UK for cycling deaths.

As far as I can see the stats you quote only go up to 2015 and close passing laws are more recent than that (Spain 2016?). I think we need a few years of data to see if there has been any real effect. Unless you have more recent data...

BehindTheBikesheds wrote:

joeegg wrote:

   I ride in Spain for nearly 6 months every year.The routes around my house become busy with cyclists every weekend and i never hear of confrontations between cyclists and motorists. The local council has put up signs along these routes advising motorists of the safe passing distance of 1.5 metres. This is overwhelmingly respected.In fact,the cyclists ride in groups virtually blocking the road and the only people i hear complaining about that are British drivers. Is this cultural as the Spanish just seem calm and relaxed in their vehicles compared to the " angry " brigade we have here.

And yet the Spanish cycling deaths per billion miles is worse than the UK, the 1.5m passing rule has not changed a thing in terms of cycling injuries and people are still harassed in Spanish cities where cycling injuries have been on the rise for some time. Helmets and hi-vis compulsary on roads outside cities even during the day.

Anecdote does not equal data, sorry but the facts speak for themselves, you should check them out, France is also equally not as great as some people think, Germany same.

Yes there are in many instancs more respect but the overall picture is no better than the UK for cycling deaths.

A link to the facts would be useful.

While wearing a helmet might be compulsory, I only had the Guardia Civil once tell me to put my helmet on, they didn't hang around long enough to see whether I did or not.

 I'd love to know where this harrassment in cities comes from too (this has to be 100% anecdotal). The only road I wouldn't ride on was Paseo de la Castellana in Madrid, Cibeles was an absolute hoot though and generally people were accommodating of cyclists. The Spanish style of driving, I think, is best summed up in the fact that everyone drives quickly but no one is in a rush. Do you think the rise of accidents in Spanish cities runs in line with the increase in popularity? I'll admit that there were very, very, very, very few riders in Madrid when I was riding there some 10 years ago, I'll admit that my Facebook has a significant number of rants about poor driving in Spain/Madrid now than I ever experienced

Just watch out for the coked up kids on a Sunday morning.

vonhelmet wrote:

I worry that one day someone will do something stupid and I’ll end up dragging them out of their car and beating them half to death. The closest I’ve come is screaming my head off at some middle aged lady who drove into my back wheel while I was waiting at a roundabout and I screamed blue murder at her. Pedestrians were staring. Fun times.

My logical brain tells me to let it go, the trouble is that adrenaline floods my reptile brain and I start yelling. It's not a sensible or logical course of action, I almost got a kicking off three lads in a BMW a few years back, really lucky to avoid them trying to grab my rucksack and haul me off the bike. Strava PB on that segment still stands

vonhelmet wrote:

I worry that one day someone will do something stupid and I’ll end up dragging them out of their car and beating them half to death. The closest I’ve come is screaming my head off at some middle aged lady who drove into my back wheel while I was waiting at a roundabout and I screamed blue murder at her. Pedestrians were staring. Fun times.

There was that guy last year who launched his bike into the windscreen of a car whose driver was very likely driving like a prick, it might have seemed like OTT reaction but it's down to the continual driving like a prick and being on the end of it for the 100th time that week, 1000th time that year and he's cracked and lost it.

That's what is being allowed to happen by police, by government, by CPS and by judges. They are all complicit in these assaults, a close pass that makes you feel fear of harm/alarm is exactly that.

But then it'd be you getting the charge. I was threatened with breach of the peace (I told plod exactly what happened) for punching the side (thoughened glass) window of a bus after knobjockey almost wiped me out as he was doing 50mph. He denied even seeing me when I caught him up at the queue. Police did fuck-all despite his threats to put me (back) in hospital, despite video, oh wait, police said that the bus company told them there was no video and they beleived them ffs!

I felt like lamping the fucker, I was so angry.