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news
Wardour Street (via StreetView)TfL to pilot default green man signal at ten pedestrian crossings
Transport for London (TfL) is to trial ‘green man authority’ on ten pedestrian crossings in the capital. The signal strategy gives pedestrians priority, relying on detectors to pick up any oncoming vehicles.
The July 2018 TfL Walking Action Plan states: "‘Green man’ authority is a radical technique where the traffic signals show a green signal for pedestrians continuously, until vehicular traffic is detected, at which time the pedestrians are stopped on a red signal, and vehicles are given a green light to proceed.
“This technique has previously only been used at two locations in London, on bus-only streets in Hounslow and Morden. TfL has identified the next 10 new locations where this approach will be set up, where it would significantly benefit pedestrians, with very little detriment to traffic."
TransportXtra reports that the ten crossings to be treated are:
- Newham: Endeavour Square (Westfield Avenue by Southern Boulevard; Westfield Avenue by Middle Crossing; and Westfield Avenue by International Way)
- City of London: Millennium Bridge (Queen Victoria Street by Distaff Lane)
- Southwark: Guy’s Hospital (St Thomas Street by Weston Street East; and St Thomas Street by Weston Street West)
- Southwark: The Shard/Guy’s Hospital (St Thomas Street by Joiner Street)
- Westminster: Wardour Street (Wardour Street by Brewer Street)
- Hammersmith and Fulham: Imperial Wharf Station (Imperial Road by Fulmead Street)
- Merton: Wimbledon Shopping Centre (Queens Road by South Park Road)
A TfL spokesperson said the signal controller will be set with minimum and maximum times for vehicle green periods, and a minimum time for people walking.
“In times when traffic flows are busier, the benefits of green man authority may not be as evident, because whilst we are trying to strike a better balance, we do not want to create excessive congestion on the roads.”
The spokesperson added: “This is a pilot phase where we want to understand the operational impacts and benefits of this type of traffic light configuration.”
An obvious question from a cyclist’s perspective is whether the technology will detect those on bikes.
Responding to a Freedom of Information request in August 2018, TfL said: “As part of the development, a requirement will be the detection of oncoming bicycles at Green Man Authority sites.
“The current overhead vehicle detectors used by Transport for London (TfL) do detect oncoming bicycles. Evaluation of our detection equipment used on the network has shown that cyclists are detected.”
Alex has written for more cricket publications than the rest of the road.cc team combined. Despite the apparent evidence of this picture, he doesn't especially like cake.
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59 comments
Really?
Coming down the hill from Reading Uni into town, Southampton Street at the junction with Crown Street, admittedly not just a pedestrian crossing, there is an enforcement camera, oddly enough don't see many ambler gamblers there.
I suggested such a system about a decade ago, and friends looked at me as if I were stark raving bonkers.
But look, maybe I'm negative about these things, but this will never work. The same drivers who think that cyclists and pedestrians should cede passage to them at all times (i.e. about 95% of drivers) are going to wait for a couple of seconds and then force their way through the crossing pedestrians.
I think most motorists would still be too afraid to go against the red lights when there are people crossing (not saying that a few won't try it) but most of the issues from drivers are from either laziness, or lack of fear of getting caught. There's quite a big difference between driving through a light that's changing to red when there aren't people on the road vs already being halted and choosing to drive before the road is clear.
If more systems were introduced like this to shift the priority away from motorists it might help to change the mindset of a few, either that or annoy them so much that they find other ways to travel because driving just isn't worth the hassle to them.
Or it should be made an offence to press the button (normally without even looking!) and then cross against a red
Why?
At a guess, 'because car drivers pay road tax' or something equally idiotic.
Because you've just held up the traffic for no reason!
If you need help to cross the road, press the button and wait for the lights to change.
If you are able to crosss the road on your own when there's no traffic, don't press the button and just cross the road...
But what about the other pedestrian who walks up to the crossing just after you've crossed against a red man? Haven't you made *their* life a little bit easier, because they'll have to wait less time to cross...
IME most urban areas have been designed to Keep the Traffic Flowing (TM), and not to make life easier for anyone not in a car.
(a) I'm far from convinced that much of the time those buttons even do anything.
(b) when the person presses the button there probably is traffic, it's just that because they are set to wait several days before actually changing the lights, a gap in the traffic occurs long, long before the green man appears, so the pedestrian then crosses and the light eventually changes about a week after they've gone.
(c) if motorists would show some courtesy or concern for others they'd stop for the person waiting (who, after all, was probably there long before they were), and the lights wouldn't be necessary in the first place. So the issue you describe is the fault of the motorists anyway.
Except that 'traffic' does not have any 'right' to get around at any particular speed or in any particular delay.
That's one of the big problems with British drivers *: the sense of entitlement and the belief that they're somehow on the road 'by right'.
They aren't.
* the other problem is that they're basically arrogant, gobby, selfish, sociopathic c**ts.
And?
I had some nutter scream something similar at me recently. He was standing at the crossing when I walked up, but the button hadn't been pressed. I pressed it, then ten seconds later there were no more cars within sight, so I crossed. He followed me and started some barely comprehensible rant about my holding up traffic, therefore harming the economy, and continued shouting through the door of the bank I went into to use the cash machine.
You could just jump the red light like all the cyclists do in your head.
I mustn't have explained this very well, must I?
I ride a bike, I don't go through red lights, so please stop assuming things!
my comment was about the one pedestrian that just presses the button without thinking about the 20 people that now have to wait at a red light after thay have crossed the road without actually needing to stop the traffic as there was none there when they pressed the button
You explained it fine, we just disagree with you
So should the person wanting to cross not bother pressing the button and instead wait for a gap?
Or press the button, wait for the lights to change before crossing? But they would STILL hold up any drivers, so the only person additionally inconvenienced is the one waiting to cross. But that's OK because they're only a pedestrian and the drivers remain contented because they can see a person using the crossing.
The person doesn't do it "without thinking". Their need is to cross the road, not to make drivers happier less frustrated because - god forbid - they are expected to slow or stop for someone crossing the road.
That's a nice binary world you live in. Most people press the button because there ARE vehicles approaching. If a gap subsequently appears - because the delay before the lights change is long, as it often is - then a lot of people are just going to cross. Some will wait.
These types of crossings have proliferated because drivers won't respect zebra crossings, where they are supposed to stop for pedestrians (as well as the huge growth in the volume of motorised traffic). So drivers have created the problem. You seem to be perpetuating that idea. Thanks a bundle.
This entitlement thing about drivers having priority really has become deeply embedded in the psyche of much of the population in this country.
Sometimes I press the button on pedestrian lights and then run away giggling as all the cars have had to stop and I don't even want to cross the road.
I think it's time to stop this wild generalisation, by pointing out that the UK already has light controlled crossings with detectors, that cancel a pending green if there are no pedestrians waiting. Sadly, none of the crossings that I use are like that. Even more sadly, I expect to see a driver ignore a red light, while a pedestrian is crossing, about once a week. The best answer is to dig tunnels exclusively for motor vehicles.
Ah, is that a thing?
There are a couple of crossings I use, where I know that if I don't press the button then there won't be a pedestrian crossing phase, where I have to keep pressing the button because the red light around the button which indicates that it knows it's been pressed keeps going off. I wonder if that's what's going on (that a sensor thinks that I'm no longer standing there so it cancels the call...)
Tunnels exclusively for motor vehicles? Do you really think anything good will come of yet more infrastructure dedicated to motor vehicles and from which pedestrians and cyclists (not to mention other activities) are banned?
I wasn't suggesting banning humans and human powered vehicles from the surface level. So, yes I do!
About 50 years ago there was a serious suggestion to tunnel the A12* under Ipswich. Think about how nice Ipswich could have become, especially if the project continued and was adopted elsewhere.
* maybe it was the A14 (née A45) or both?
There was no indication of banning anyone or anything from the surface. Sure, if you sent all the cars down into a tunnel and didn't allow them up again (at least till they were out of town), that could make towns a lot nicer. But it didn't read as if that was your idea.
My take on it was that creating additional facilities exclusively for motor traffic could only lead to an increase in driving, by making it more convenient (like motorways etc).
Oh, I was assuming the idea was the tunnels wouldn't have any exits to the surface. They boy-racers could zoom around down there to their heart's content, on the understanding they never emerge again.
Though I suppose a moderate "centrist" version might allow for pedestrian entraces and exits, with only the vehicles themselves staying down there. But I fear it would be abused and they'd abduct active travellers from the surface to drag them down to be sacrificed to their dark four-wheeled Gods.
I do see what you are on about - the pedestrian who willy-nilly presses the button even though the coast is clear, proceeds to cross in conflict with the process they have just initiated. But I was illustrating the far more prevalent scenario where a "fully aware" pedestrian, wishing to cross a busy road, justifiably presses the button. Then they are made to wait a mandatory default period, even if this is the first time the button has been pressed in the whole day. Inevitably, if a gap in the traffic materialises during the enforced wait they will cross, leaving the crossing empty when finally the lights change.
I think many pedestrians, especially if they are in "auto-pilot" on a regular daily route, act out of habit and press the button as an "each-way bet" to cross in the shorter of two delays. The set up reinforces such behaviour.
My suggestion would fix this problem, and the one you describe, make the crossing safer and less annoying for all road users. And it is a reprogramming job only.
The button is almost always (if not always) only there to trick people into waiting, it doesn't actually affect the timing of the lights.
The worst, and most prevalent, and easiest to fix, is where there is a default delay between a pedestrian pressing the button and the lights changing. Mostly what happens is the button is pressed, the default 60 seconds (or so) delay kicks in, during which the pedestrian grows impatient and nips across at any random gap in the traffic flow. Finally, the lights change forcing the traffic to stop for an empty crossing.
These should be reprogrammed so the delay counts down from the last change to (pedestrian) red, so that any crossing activated after it has been unused for a while will change immediately in favour of the pedestrian.
Just good, maybe motorists should have to wait a couple of minutes after pressing a button.
I do hope that they have their detectors set up better than Reading, there are detectors on some cycle specific crossings that fail to detect my bicycles.
I've always thought it rather odd that those sitting in a warm dry box, requiring no physical effort on their own part in order to move, are given priority, in terms of both time and distance, over those that are out and exposed in all weathers and have to move with their own effort. There are several examples locally where the route for motor vehicles is shorter and more direct than that for bicycles and pedestrians that are sent on contorted excursions around the motor vehicle route.
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