TfL to pilot default green man signal at ten pedestrian crossings

I was thinking more of a Morlock type thing.

Elon Musk has laughingly been developing a car tunnel thing.  Why is it Space-X seems quite good, but everything else has massive faults?

Whilst at a London Cycling Campaign meeting, I thought that we needed something like this... and a couple of weeks later here it is! Excellent news.

This technique seems to be aimed at roads with only occasional traffic, there also needs to be a technique for where there are lots of pedestrians, but the traffic also needs to be able to flow when a main junction's lights go green - for example on shopping streets.

In addition to "head in phone"  and other forms of obliviousness, I can think of at least two reasons why people might press the button even when there's not any traffic. One is that some people, especially if they walk slowly or are frail or have had previous bad experiences on crossings, value the security that the green man gives them. The other is that over the past decade or so, most pelicans with big green/red man symbols on the far side of the road have been replaced with puffin crossings, which have little men in a box next to your shoulder or elbow – often placed just where they obscure the oncoming traffic. Even when not placed quite so stupidly, it's impossible to look at these and check the road simultaneously, as it with the big, clear symbols of the old skool pelicans. So yet another way in which we're training a generation of kids to look at lights, not at traffic or people. (London and a couple of other cities are the exception, with the far side lights plus timers.)

What gets me most in this appalling story is the idea that the colour of the light was in any way relevant, there was a young family crossing at a pedestrian crossing quite legally and with the apparent protection of the law, in front of this vehicle.  Not only did this convicted murderer fail to check the lights, he couldn't be bothered to check the pedestrian crossing in front of  his massive vehicle.

And the warning to cyclists that covers the back of the killers beheamoth just takes the piss, perhaps after this horrific case, Sainsbury's should forget their branding, paint the entire vehicle in hi viz yellow, and place warnings to all those who might happen to be anywhere near it that this vehicle will kill you.  Or maybe just the inside of the cab, for it's drivers to use those massive windows, and mirrors and check around their death machine.

RIP Tiny Cyclist.

My deepest symathies to the family and friends of Jaiden Mangan.

Double post 

Mike, are too many people pushing your buttons?

On a more serious note.

Default red might mean that drivers are more likely to check before proceeding.

Wareham toddler crossing death lorry driver jailed:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-dorset-48066113

I hate those lazy f*ckers who park on the zig zag lines, usually to nip in for their take away curry or to get cash from the bank or other vital purpose. Also, why are lorries not fitted with blind spot cameras or at least parking sensor type ...sensors at the front and back to warn of things (people) that the driver cannot directly see?

Why has the court denied the death by dangerous driving charge? That car hardly appeared from nowhere, regardless of how illegaly parked. Surely the lorry driver should have had the wit to stop at a distance where he could see the crossing from his cab, let alone check the lights had not changed before proceeding.

But hey ho, 4 year old kid on balance bike so 6 months inside, trivial driving ban and back to business as usual.

Another fun game is to press the button and wait for the traffic to stop. Take a step or two into the road, look at your watch suddenly and then turn around and go a different way.

I'm not one for pressing the button when there is no need to and I can cross the road without the assistance of traffic lights. Why make someone else's day more inconvenient at even the most trivial level just because you can? Exception is when someone is waiting with a child, I'll not set a bad example by crossing when the ped lights are not green. Just call me St Mungecrundle.

Mike, we understood completely where you were coming from the first time.

I am remarking about the selfishness of affecting someone else when it wasn't necessary, not a sense of entitlement!

I would never do anything that would have an adverse effect to someone else without a necessity or benefit

Situation:

Pedestrian presses button and walks across as there was no traffic. Benefit to them of pressing the button = NONE

Lights change and traffic that has now appreared has to stop = Negative effect on them, more noise,emissions etc

Result = No positive, only negative

However, I'm more than happy to be stopped at a red light for someone that is prepared to consider the consequence of stopping the traffic and NEEDED to do that in order to cross safely. There would be a POSITIVE in that! 

I'd like it if we had simple zebra crossings (just black and white paint - no need for the lights) at every road junction so that pedestrians have priority and motorists get used to properly giving way when turning into a road. Also, it would help with those shitty cycle paths that are interrupted by side roads.

mikepridmorewood wrote:

If you are able to crosss the road on your own when there's no traffic, don't press the button and just cross the road...

That's a nicely simplistic world you live in.

Most people press the button because there ARE vehicles approaching. Otherwise they'd just cross the road! If a gap subsequently appears - because the delay before the lights change is long, as it often is - then a lot of people are just going to cross if they feel it's safe enough. Some will wait.

I know that junction well.  It's right across from Berners Street, from where the pic was taken, unless I'm mistaken.  I used to work in that street.  Bought my mobile from the Vodafone shop in the picture.  Got a camera tripod from the Jessops that's right next to it.  I used to come down there and turn left to go home.  Oxford Circus is to the right.   That junction is right next to a Nando's, a small Sainsbury's and of course is right on Oxford Street.  So it's really, really busy all the time.  Even when you have the green, the peds are crossing in front of you all the time.

One evening in the winter, I left work as usual and turned left on the green.  Pedestrian was crossing (the crossing is actually to the right of the junction), and I slowed to let her across.  But behind her (and concealed from me) was another person, towing a small girl of about maybe seven or eight years.  I slammed on the brakes, did a stoppie and when I came back down, my foot went on top of the little girl's lower leg and pushed her to the ground.  Genuinely thought I'd broken her leg.  She was OK, and they both just continued on their way without a word, and without acknowledging my earnest apologies (yes, I know, but I'm British, innit?)

I think pedestrians will still cross at places where it's dangerous to do so.

If this works, then it should also help enforce speed limits. No point rushing up to a red light at 35 mph when it will only change to let you through without having to stop if you amble up at a nice leisurely 30 mph.

This is good, it will finally make motorists realise that they do not own the road!

Playing devils advocate....
To reduce fuel consumption and therefore Co2 output, we need car traffic to be as smooth as possible. I suppose if this discourages driving, the outcome could be better. If it discourages cycling, that's bad.

Expand capacity to smooth traffic flows > more traffic > expland capacity > more traffic etc etc

The only effective way to reduce congestion and pollution is to restrict traffic and provide attractive alternatives.

Playing devils advocate....
To reduce fuel consumption and therefore Co2 output, we need car traffic to be as smooth as possible. I suppose if this discourages driving, the outcome could be better. If it discourages cycling, that's bad.

This is one of those innovations that will be so obvious in a few years we’ll wonder how it was any other way in lots of city centre locations. Default green for traffic is one of the many hidden ways where we’ve subconsciously forced people into driving. 

Bring it on, I can think of 10 places in my local area alone where this should be the default.