TfL plans 20mph speed limit in Congestion Charging Zone

Awavey wrote:

Well hopefully TFL will do a better job of enforcing it than most, as these experimental cameras spotted 2000 drivers in just 1 week travelling over 27mph, 9 were captured at between 42-47mph...in a 20mph zone https://www.edp24.co.uk/news/politics/more-than-2-000-spotted-speeding-b...

My understanding is that 20mph zones are not enforceable - the limit remains the national speed limit for a built-up area i.e. 30mph.  20mph limits are enforcable, but they are used less often as repeater signs are required to advise of the limit.  I still follow them mind (unless I'm cycling), much to the annoyance of the queue of drivers behind me.  If I'm cycling, and I consider it safe, and it is clear, I will often let my speed build up on the downhill so that I can get up the inevitable uphill with less effort (as much as I might like to create tailbacks).

hawkinspeter wrote:

@Fluffy - my favourite conspiracy theory about the media fixation on knife crime is that it's a perfect way to increase stop and search powers.

Given that most people die in bed, I'm just grateful that knives are still the weapon of choice, just imagine the carnage that would result from pillow fights.

Mungecrundle wrote:

hawkinspeter wrote:

@Fluffy - my favourite conspiracy theory about the media fixation on knife crime is that it's a perfect way to increase stop and search powers.

Given that most people die in bed, I'm just grateful that knives are still the weapon of choice, just imagine the carnage that would result from pillow fights.

That's why I sleep in a tree - almost nobody dies that way.

(Similarly, the number of road collisions involving cyclists in squirrel suits are negligible)

Rick_Rude wrote:

Needs to put more effort into vision zero stabbings rather than doing 15mph. Or maybe the idea is at 15mph it's easier for someone to stab you?

Knife crime might be outside TFLs remit. Unless you want to see the OCP model implemented in London.

Rick_Rude wrote:

Needs to put more effort into vision zero stabbings rather than doing 15mph. Or maybe the idea is at 15mph it's easier for someone to stab you?

Your weak attempt at a petrol-head/UKIPpy troll actually brings up a lot of issues I've been wondering about.

 I'm having a hard time squaring the media furore over the topic with the actual data about total murder rates .  The London murder rate is quite low by historical standards.  Way lower than the 70s, 80s or 90s, and just a bit higher than the early 2000s.  Furthermore it's been constant for most of the last decade.

I was thinking it's certainly possible that stabbing murders have displaced other forms of fatal violence.  People are stabbing more and clubbing-over-the-head less, or something like that.   And perhaps A&E performance has improved in a way that makes attacks not involving knives less likely to be fatal?

But then I found these figures, which seem to show, at least up to 2017, the knife murder rate wasn't historically unusual either.

https://www.london.gov.uk/questions/system/files/attachments/Appendix%20...

But there might have been a big uptick in knife murders over the year or so since then.  Though if that is the case, it seems possible to me that the media hysteria has been putting the idea in criminal scrote's heads - why else would there be a sudden leap in just the last year?   I wonder if it could be shown that the media attention actually preceded any rise in stabbings?

The whole issue needs more analysis than our shouty, hysterical, fad-driven media ever seem to give it.  I don't trust anything they tell me, again-and-again even supposedly 'quality' journalists appear unable to understand statistics or inclined do any research.  Look at how they suddenly noticed cyclists being killed a few years ago, and all we got was a victim-blaming police operation, and then the media forgot all about it again.

And it's obvious there are a lot of non-Londoner white people out there who are predisposed to believe London _must_ be a lawless hellhole simply because it has non-white people in it (when to me it's the country outside the M25 that appears a bit scary, complete strangers say 'hello' to you - disturbing behaviour)

In any case, the number who die from knives in London is still a fraction of those who die from motorised vehicles, something like 100 vs 3000, I think.  So it's clear where most attention should be.  And police funding is more down to central government than the mayor anyway.

  Actually it's not clear the mayor has much power over anything really (and Khan seems reluctant to use what little power he does have, in building cycle infrastructure).

ktache wrote:

I am still wondering if the 20mph limit, and indeed the excellent 15mph limit in the city, would apply to non-mechanically propelled vehicles (us)?

No, I don't think so. Not without a bylaw in place. Also, the table in the highway code does not include bicycles.