Near Miss of the Day 304: A London commuter's compilation

vonhelmet wrote:

The zig zag rules apply to all "vehicles", which includes bicycles. Edit: it does in the highway code anyway. I'm not trawling through the legislation to see whether there's parallel sections to the above for cyclists.

Not according to http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2002/3113/part/I/crossheading/road-ma...

Roubaixcobbles wrote:

By the way, 3.40 - it's illegal for any users to overtake or undertake within the zigzag lines approaching a zebra crossing, as you did.

That is motorised  on motorised vehicles though.

hirsute wrote:

Roubaixcobbles wrote:

By the way, 3.40 - it's illegal for any users to overtake or undertake within the zigzag lines approaching a zebra crossing, as you did.

That is motorised  on motorised vehicles though.

Fairly sure that's not the case - just as cyclists have to stop to let pedestrians cross we have to abide by th other regulations around zebras.  Even if I'm wrong, it's a bloody stupid thing to do.

Judge dreadful wrote:

You have to remember that this is a London commute. Presumably, there’s a time limit / deadline to hit ( getting to work etc.). ( specifically / particularly, in London ) you have no choice but to ride in a manner, that can appear to the un initiated, a bit pushy / overly assertive / aggressive, or you simply won’t get where you’re going in time.

Doesn't that hold true for any commuting? 

I'll sit in a queue if there are maybe a handful of cars in front of me waiting at traffic lights,  where I can be pretty sure I'll get through too.

But (as in one location on my route), a half a mile of queuing motor traffic waiting for a single set of lights (going home, for me), or queuing to get over the suspension bridge in Clifton (going to work)?  No thank you, I'll (carefully!) filter, thank you very much.

brooksby wrote:

Judge dreadful wrote:

You have to remember that this is a London commute. Presumably, there’s a time limit / deadline to hit ( getting to work etc.). ( specifically / particularly, in London ) you have no choice but to ride in a manner, that can appear to the un initiated, a bit pushy / overly assertive / aggressive, or you simply won’t get where you’re going in time.

Doesn't that hold true for any commuting? 

I'll sit in a queue if there are maybe a handful of cars in front of me waiting at traffic lights,  where I can be pretty sure I'll get through too.

But (as in one location on my route), a half a mile of queuing motor traffic waiting for a single set of lights (going home, for me), or queuing to get over the suspension bridge in Clifton (going to work)?  No thank you, I'll (carefully!) filter, thank you very much.

Same goes for me. Where I live, a small town on the outskirts of Cardiff, there's only two routes out. I use the main one which, during commuting hours, is usually choked with cars all the way back to the town centre. The traffic is either at a dead stop or moving very slowly. There's no way I'm going to sit in a queue of traffic like this one. So I crank up my attention-o-meter to 11 and filter on the outside (never on the inside, asking for trouble). Trust me, I am acutely aware of my surroundings and the risks and the dangers and ride accordingly, which is pretty much my approach to my entire 5 mile commute, even the quiet, 'safe' bits. I adapt to road conditions on a minute-by-minute basis, including filtering. I'm sure others do the same.           

Judge dreadful wrote:

You have to remember that this is a London commute. Presumably, there’s a time limit / deadline to hit ( getting to work etc.). ( specifically / particularly, in London ) you have no choice but to ride in a manner, that can appear to the un initiated, a bit pushy / overly assertive / aggressive, or you simply won’t get where you’re going in time.

Surely one of the points of cycling is knowing that it will take you pretty much the same time each journey, so you know when the latest you can leave is.
There is always a choice too.

Judge dreadful wrote:

You have to remember that this is a London commute. Presumably, there’s a time limit / deadline to hit ( getting to work etc.). ( specifically / particularly, in London ) you have no choice but to ride in a manner, that can appear to the un initiated, a bit pushy / overly assertive / aggressive, or you simply won’t get where you’re going in time. The Ride London Surrey 100 Sportive, is always an eye opener in this respect. If you behave 100 percent ‘by the book’ when trying to cross London, during ‘peak times’, it can take a lot longer than you’d imagine. Take the cars and traffic lights out of the equation, and you can easily do it in a fraction of the time.

Thats a rubbish way to make a journey. If youre going to be late be late. Why should others have to put up with behaving like an pushy / overly assertive / aggressive idiot so you are on time.

nicmason wrote:

Lying in a hospital bed with "life changing" injuries while moaning "I had right of way" is a poor outcome.

True, although to be fair, the OP did hold his hand up on this to some extent - i'm not too sure how much you can claim to have right of way whilst on the wrong side of the road mind...

nicmason wrote:

Lying in a hospital bed with "life changing" injuries while moaning "I had right of way" is a poor outcome.

It comes down to the physics.  A cyclist shouldn't try it on with a car.  A car driver will never try it on with an HGV.  A HGV driver would never try it on with an oil tanker (I don't know - it could happen...).

But of course it does mean that the concept of priority tends to go out the window, and it comes down to 'might is right' ("I'm bigger than you, so you can shove your priority!").

dmack wrote:

Seems to me you are as aggressive as the car drivers are.  Riding down the outside of  a queue of traffic at high speed  is a recipe for disaster.  The roads are a shared space, everyone needs to travel at a speed that takes account of the conditions.  Not just car drivers.

Fast - fairly.  Assertive - generally.  Aggressive - no.  Subject to occasional errors of judgement - yes.  Listening to music - no.  Concentrating - yes.  Lit up like a Christmas tree - yes,  two lights front and back, day and night.

dmack wrote:

Seems to me you are as aggressive as the car drivers are.  Riding down the outside of  a queue of traffic at high speed  is a recipe for disaster.  The roads are a shared space, everyone needs to travel at a speed that takes account of the conditions.  Not just car drivers.

Can we make our minds up.  One of the NMOTD last week, everyone was criticizing the OP for filtering down the inside, and now everyone's criticizing this OP for filtering down the outside.

I suppose he could buy a fat bike and filter straight down the middle...  

brooksby wrote:

dmack wrote:

Seems to me you are as aggressive as the car drivers are.  Riding down the outside of  a queue of traffic at high speed  is a recipe for disaster.  The roads are a shared space, everyone needs to travel at a speed that takes account of the conditions.  Not just car drivers.

Can we make our minds up.  One of the NMOTD last week, everyone was criticizing the OP for filtering down the inside, and now everyone's criticizing this OP for filtering down the outside.

I suppose he could buy a fat bike and filter straight down the middle...  

The problem is that we cyclists, in the same way as motorists, regard a queue as an obstacle to be surmounted.  So we filter on the inside or the outside, rather than wait in the queue. It's not the side we do it on but the filtering that is the problem as it exposes us to hazards.  It seems to me rather like gazelles walking past a queue of elephants.  A mistake by the elephant will crush the gazelle!

dmack wrote:

brooksby wrote:

dmack wrote:

Seems to me you are as aggressive as the car drivers are.  Riding down the outside of  a queue of traffic at high speed  is a recipe for disaster.  The roads are a shared space, everyone needs to travel at a speed that takes account of the conditions.  Not just car drivers.

Can we make our minds up.  One of the NMOTD last week, everyone was criticizing the OP for filtering down the inside, and now everyone's criticizing this OP for filtering down the outside.

I suppose he could buy a fat bike and filter straight down the middle...  

The problem is that we cyclists, in the same way as motorists, regard a queue as an obstacle to be surmounted.  So we filter on the inside or the outside, rather than wait in the queue. It's not the side we do it on but the filtering that is the problem as it exposes us to hazards.  It seems to me rather like gazelles walking past a queue of elephants.  A mistake by the elephant will crush the gazelle!

But the queue of motor vehicles are holding me up, and legally a cyclist can filter.

Yes, the cyclist needs to "Keep their wits about them" (C) Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson, but why would the gazelles wait until all of the elephants have shuffled along if they can slide (carefully!) past?

dmack wrote:

brooksby wrote:

dmack wrote:

Seems to me you are as aggressive as the car drivers are.  Riding down the outside of  a queue of traffic at high speed  is a recipe for disaster.  The roads are a shared space, everyone needs to travel at a speed that takes account of the conditions.  Not just car drivers.

Can we make our minds up.  One of the NMOTD last week, everyone was criticizing the OP for filtering down the inside, and now everyone's criticizing this OP for filtering down the outside.

I suppose he could buy a fat bike and filter straight down the middle...  

The problem is that we cyclists, in the same way as motorists, regard a queue as an obstacle to be surmounted.  So we filter on the inside or the outside, rather than wait in the queue. It's not the side we do it on but the filtering that is the problem as it exposes us to hazards.  It seems to me rather like gazelles walking past a queue of elephants.  A mistake by the elephant will crush the gazelle!

So let me get this straight. You queue up with the cars? You wait in line with them? Like a car? One of the trade-offs of being vulnerable and exposed to all weathers, is not being held up by stationary or slow traffic. Why use a bicycle if you're not going to take advantage of its plus points - size, speed and agility in an urban environment?

brooksby wrote:

dmack wrote:

Seems to me you are as aggressive as the car drivers are.  Riding down the outside of  a queue of traffic at high speed  is a recipe for disaster.  The roads are a shared space, everyone needs to travel at a speed that takes account of the conditions.  Not just car drivers.

Can we make our minds up.  One of the NMOTD last week, everyone was criticizing the OP for filtering down the inside, and now everyone's criticizing this OP for filtering down the outside.

I suppose he could buy a fat bike and filter straight down the middle...  

I thought it was more about the speed than inside/outside

Whatever you do, you need to be able to stop within the distance you can see hazards. And preferably be able to recognise when you are approaching an area where potential hazards can quickly arise.

dmack wrote:

Seems to me you are as aggressive as the car drivers are.  Riding down the outside of  a queue of traffic at high speed  is a recipe for disaster.  The roads are a shared space, everyone needs to travel at a speed that takes account of the conditions.  Not just car drivers.

Agreed, unbeliveable behaviour by the cyclist at times. the last incident says it all. Hammering down the middle of the road past a line nearly stationary cars at 18-20mph (my estimate) expecting to fly thro' a junction with vehicles clearly turning into and out of. Absolute madness and arrogance. Give the rest of us cyclists a bad name. Chill out dude or you'll be a sad statistic!!

However some of the other bits are normal practice in the area cycled. When I drive around the Croydon area I cannot believe how agressive vehicle drivers are compared to my local Westcountry city.

nniff wrote:

 

The filtering one - I know. Mea culpa.  Too fast and it had just started to rain.  What you can't see is me shaking my head at him, as in 'No'.  Still, he was looking at the gap and not me and that's all there was to it, despite the two big flashing lights on the front.   Filtering up the inside there is lethal, which I why I opted out as soon as I could when I saw the traffic had stopped and the other side reasonably clear.  

The problem for us cyclists is he'll know that a car can't come down the outside so he'll only be focussed on how he gets through the gap 

CXR94Di2 wrote:

Im so glad I dont live in a city, especially London...

I'll second that. And not JUST for the cycling.