New warning signs warn drivers of cyclists on country lanes

Rick_Rude wrote:

Alliston caused 'bodily harm by wanton and furious driving'. She then died as a result of this bodily harm. End result is that he killed her. If a cyclist isn't killed at the scene and then dies later we don't say the driver didn't kill them.

However, he was tried and found innocent of manslaughter, so it would be wrong to say that she died as a direct result of the bodily harm that Alliston caused. As I understand it, she died from her head hitting the road and her fall was a result of the collision, but you wouldn't typically expect someone to die from that kind of fall. (e.g. You could bump into someone in the street and knock them over but if they happen to fall awkwardly and die from that, you wouldn't necessarily be held responsible for their death). The bodily harm caused by Alliston was most likely bruising and although their heads collided, she didn't die from that.

Collisions beteween cars and people typically have people dying from the extensive trauma later on, so it's not really a fair comparison with the Alliston case.

CyclingInBeastMode wrote:

Why not lower the speed limit to the very max of 40mph on all minor NSL highways except trunk roads, put in restrictor devices in all motors plus all speed limit signs to have a sender unit in it to tell the motor that it cannot go above the limit, if it rains lower the limit by 15-20% automatically)

That would force the issue, not give weak recommendations which we know motorists ignore anyway otherwise there would be no need for these signs in the first place.  Just more weak powder puff 'solutions' that won't work, even less so because police/CPS/legal system is so mickey poor.

Because we don't have to crack walnuts with hammers. Alliston killed a ped at 18mph. 10mph on contact I seem to remember. 5mph limit for bikes in town centres? Need to be safe.

Rick_Rude wrote:

CyclingInBeastMode wrote:

Why not lower the speed limit to the very max of 40mph on all minor NSL highways except trunk roads, put in restrictor devices in all motors plus all speed limit signs to have a sender unit in it to tell the motor that it cannot go above the limit, if it rains lower the limit by 15-20% automatically)

That would force the issue, not give weak recommendations which we know motorists ignore anyway otherwise there would be no need for these signs in the first place.  Just more weak powder puff 'solutions' that won't work, even less so because police/CPS/legal system is so mickey poor.

Because we don't have to crack walnuts with hammers. Alliston killed a ped at 18mph. 10mph on contact I seem to remember. 5mph limit for bikes in town centres? Need to be safe.

Alliston wasn't found guilty of causing the pedestrian's death, though he was found guilty of furious cycling. It was very unlucky that the pedestrian died from her fall and if she'd been wearing a helmet ...

Rick_Rude wrote:

CyclingInBeastMode wrote:

Why not lower the speed limit to the very max of 40mph on all minor NSL highways except trunk roads, put in restrictor devices in all motors plus all speed limit signs to have a sender unit in it to tell the motor that it cannot go above the limit, if it rains lower the limit by 15-20% automatically)

That would force the issue, not give weak recommendations which we know motorists ignore anyway otherwise there would be no need for these signs in the first place.  Just more weak powder puff 'solutions' that won't work, even less so because police/CPS/legal system is so mickey poor.

Because we don't have to crack walnuts with hammers. Alliston killed a ped at 18mph. 10mph on contact I seem to remember. 5mph limit for bikes in town centres? Need to be safe.

Ah.  The "dead cat" tactic.

Rick_Rude wrote:

CyclingInBeastMode wrote:

Why not lower the speed limit to the very max of 40mph on all minor NSL highways except trunk roads, put in restrictor devices in all motors plus all speed limit signs to have a sender unit in it to tell the motor that it cannot go above the limit, if it rains lower the limit by 15-20% automatically)

That would force the issue, not give weak recommendations which we know motorists ignore anyway otherwise there would be no need for these signs in the first place.  Just more weak powder puff 'solutions' that won't work, even less so because police/CPS/legal system is so mickey poor.

Because we don't have to crack walnuts with hammers. Alliston killed a ped at 18mph. 10mph on contact I seem to remember. 5mph limit for bikes in town centres? Need to be safe.

Totally not analgous at all!

But going by your thinking & given the death toll by pedestrians we should ban walking, in fact allowing people out at all on foot, it's far more dangerous to society than people on bikes.

The chances of someone on a bike killing another is so remote that we cannot make the same rules despite the best efforts of the system to do exactly that which is part of the problem of encouraging a safe mode of travelling. Alliston was stitched up and had the law applied to him like no other motorist or pedestrian, an utter disgrace of a case, at worse he was guilty of a Construction and Regulation infraction, just like the killer of four cyclists who was done for bald tyres, we can't be interpreting the law differently can we now?

We have to use a hammer because it's not a walnut we are trying to crack, it's a massive boulder that keeps on rolling and keeps on killing and maiming every single day far in excess of any so called 'terrorist' attacks for which we use deadly force to discourage!

CyclingInBeastMode wrote:

Why not lower the speed limit to the very max of 40mph on all minor NSL highways except trunk roads, put in restrictor devices in all motors plus all speed limit signs to have a sender unit in it to tell the motor that it cannot go above the limit, if it rains lower the limit by 15-20% automatically)

That would force the issue, not give weak recommendations which we know motorists ignore anyway otherwise there would be no need for these signs in the first place.  Just more weak powder puff 'solutions' that won't work, even less so because police/CPS/legal system is so mickey poor.

Because many minor national speed limit roads are safe to drive on above 40 mph. 

Lets start with presumed liability.

pjm60 wrote:

CyclingInBeastMode wrote:

Why not lower the speed limit to the very max of 40mph on all minor NSL highways except trunk roads, put in restrictor devices in all motors plus all speed limit signs to have a sender unit in it to tell the motor that it cannot go above the limit, if it rains lower the limit by 15-20% automatically)

That would force the issue, not give weak recommendations which we know motorists ignore anyway otherwise there would be no need for these signs in the first place.  Just more weak powder puff 'solutions' that won't work, even less so because police/CPS/legal system is so mickey poor.

 

Because many minor national speed limit roads are safe to drive on above 40 mph. 

 

Lets start with presumed liability.

+1 for presumed liability. Changing speed limits is a major change that would be unpopular with a lot of drivers, but it's harder for them to argue against presumed liability. If a motorist complains that cyclists will be diving under cars in order to get insurance payouts, then the simple solution is to fit a dashcam.

Personally, I'm not convinced that changing speed limits will be that effective - I'd go for kitting out the police with eye-in-the-sky drones and employing a load of bored teenagers to fly them. Increasing enforcement would be more effective than just reducing the speed limits as it's more likely to change the behaviour of some speeding motorists.

I'd also want there to be a bunch of mobile-using detection cameras e.g. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/dec/01/world-first-mobile-phone-detection-cameras-rolled-out-in-australia