Minister for Roads insists on perpetuating 'road tax' myth

If only this was published on the guardian or telegraph where somebody might have their opinion changed instead of on here, where we all just get angrier.

Message sent to said doofus minister

One comment above suggests writing to Penning, another says don't bother.

I couldn't agree less withthe secind comment - Penning should have a Harry Potter moment - tons of 'owls' pouring through every orifice - tellng him - politley- that he is wrong.

I wrote to him at penningm [at] parliament.uk to tell him that he is wrong about road tax, to inform him of how much tax I have paid lately (very considerably more than many drivers, though no doubt considerably less than some) and to point out that this is not pedantry - this attitude fosters aggression, bullying and hostility by some motorists towards cyclists which is dangerous.

As to whether VED and fuel duties more than cover the costs of the roads, it is more complex than that - maintenance and repairs cost less than motor taxes raise, but that ignores construction costs, policing, fire and ambulance services needed for road accidents, adverse health impacts for residents close to polluted roads, etc.

And of course governments have always hated "hypothecation", certainly since Winston Churchill's time.

And of course taxes have always had parallel functions of raising money and influencing behaviour.

My parents have always referred to VED as "car tax" and never "road tax". If the politicians and the DfT feel the need to dumb down their language for the great unwashed they should refer to VED as "car tax" as you are being taxed for owning a working motor vehicle.

Mike Penning is yet another minister who has no interest or knowledge of the department he is in and the sooner he disgraces himself and is kicked out, the better it will be for the rest of us.

Funding for roads comes predominately from Council Tax. Funding for Motorways may well come from a " Central Pot " Cyclists are not allowed on Motorways.
Winston Churchill started the debate on " road ownership " in 1934.
Road Fund Duty was abolished to prevent any one group claiming they owned or had more rights to use the Highways. I've never seen a bicycle wear a road out.
Throughout the UK most cyclists are also motorcycle or car owners or indeed pedestrians. Are we going to stop any of these groups using the road because there is a perception one group pays less than another ?
Like many of his Tory friends, Mike Penning is ill-informed.

What he said is correct as he stated that both "road tax" and fuel tax go into a central pot which is allocated to different budgets so vehicle users "could" potentially pay for some of the costs of running the roads... Maybe.

Nice one Mike it's all super clear now.

Oh and if vehicle users did pay for the roads thats just grand I really enjoy using them. Perhaps we should up the taxes to sort out some of these pot holes!

Simon E- exactly, that's my point. If you pay VED for a vehicle or vehciles you own and choose to ride a bicycle instead, reducing the distance travelled in a motorised vehicles then you should be entitled to a discount for the wear and tear, congestion and emissions you are not producing.

Clearly cyclists who own cars are penalised worst of all. This system has to change and Mr Penning is just the man to do it.

There as an element of sarcasm in that last sentence, just in case anyone missed it.

mike [at] penning4hemel.com
Send him your thoughts.

The only real way to get rid of the stupid myth that VED pays for everything to do with roads is to abolish it. Not only is it not a green tax it gives bigotted people the loose idea that they own the road above others. If the tax was redistributed into fuel duty (a real green tax) or increased VAT on purchase of cars it would neuter the 'I pay for it' crowd. Although what Mike Penning said is technically correct he perpetuates a myth which too many people like to believe. I'm very disappointed with his attitude to this.

I pay VED for my car, and then choose to ride my bike instead. How then, can it be said that as a cyclist I don't contribute to the upkeep of the roads? Surely, I'm paying over the odds vs. someone who uses only their car?

Or is the argument that simply you can only use the roads with a motor vehicle subject to VED (So not one of those electric ones then).

If so, it may create a few problems for pedestrians as the pavements are also part of the road network...

He is a fool.

Given that I pay VED for my motorcycle and for my car, should I then get a refund under his system for the distance that I opt to use one of my bicyces instead? The VED is calculated on each vehicle covering an average distance and producing an average amount of emissions, which i don't. And as a lot of my annual distance travelled on the roads is by bicycle, Penning's system should see me being refunded VED for the car and motorcycle for the vehicle exhaust emissions I don't produce.

The more I read of Carlton's comments on Twitter and BikeBiz, the more I wonder how on earth this guy can be in charge of running a bath, never mind a ministerial portfolio?!

Turns up without having read the documentation, refers to "road tax", insists motorists pay for the roads, states that retro-reflective lines make cycling safer ( ). And all this after putting the meeting off twice and cutting it down to a bare half hour... Shows how valued cyclists are. Yes mate, we'll give you 30 mins, then please go away and stop bothering us while we give the go-ahead for another motorway...

remember this is the fckwit who thought A roads wern't part of his portfolio so he thought he didn't need care about us.

I wrote to him asking him to appologise to the family of Major Gareth Rhys Evans for his dumb ignorant comments.

I think the point is that because you pay x amount of tax, you don't get to decide what it is spent on. Otherwise, you can choose for your taxes to pay for the roads, and lay claim to them. I, on the other hand, will lay claim to the armed forces, and proceed to swiftly bomb the shit out of your roads...!

Just sayin.

Reminds me of being a kid, when I told my mum (I was about 5!) that I would eat my veg but only because a carrot was building my biceps in particular!

@BigDummy - ok, it's an old link, but I suspect the figures indicated are still valid.

"Road users pay £45billion a year in motoring-related taxes. This dwarfs the cost of running the road network, which takes little more than £10billion every year."

In fact, I'd imagine the proportion of money spent on roads is probably even lower now given the current economic climate. But either way, car drivers should accept that their car-related taxes bare no relevance to what is spent on the roads.

Have a read of today's Times as well - front page column continued on p11 about charging lorries to use the roads and both Penning and Edmund King are quoted in the article going on about "road tax" and how much lorries already pay blah blah.

As someone who has paid plenty of higher rate income tax over the years, I feel I have made a sufficient contribution to the maintenance of a civilised society and its infrastructure that I should be permitted to ride my bicycle on the road.

I'd be interested to know though whether:

VED + fuel duty > cost of roads

Anyone have a vaguely credible link?

http://www.theyworkforyou.com/mp/michael_penning/hemel_hempstead

against... gay rights
against... a proportional way of electing MPs

I don't think this is the sort of open minded, rational person whose views are going to be changed. he almost seems to accept it doesn't make any sense whilst maintaining his position, with his sole defence being "its been taken out of context".

To be fair to Penning, he didn't use the words 'road tax'. He halted before the said VED.

He seemed to know there was a cyclist-centric trap being laid and he mustn't use the offending phrase, but he then went and spoilt it by spouting personal views when he should have cited official DfT views.

He likes being Minister for Cars and tries to get cyclists to talk, instead, to Norman Baker.

When he came into the meeting, early, and when there were only a couple of us present, he joked that he was going to "get crucified" by cyclists but that he wasn't afraid of that because "once you've been crucified once, you don't mind it so much."