Police and cyclists at loggerheads over Surrey League race cancellation

"I do wonder why cyclists crossing a solid white line is a problem when i am overtaken, often dangerously by Motorists crossing solid white lines every day?"

When I was a newbie on the Traffic Dept I went out one day with my Skipper to do a bit of local familiarisation. I was fairly confident (as you are) at one point and started to 'wind-up' for an overtake on a relatively short stretch of road that led into a right hand bend. My skipper, bless him, turned to me and, gently placing his hand on the gear lever, said "Whenever you're thinking about an overtake, always imagine that I'm coming the other way on a shout"**

I have never forgotten that advice because I feel it is one of those gems of insight that keeps people alive.

One of the other insights I learnt from those days was "The more paint the more danger"

Solid white lines are there for a very good reason!

**My skipper was the smoothest, fastest and safest driver on the department, what he could do with a car was amazing and if I was ever in dire circumstances (which I was on a few occasions) it was always a relief to hear that my skipper was 'making progress' toward me.

+1 theclaw

Maybe the answer is cat 3\4 races are only run on circuits.

We have plenty of them now.

I wonder if any of the cyclists taking part were filming their progress and would be kind enough (if we could find someone brave enough) to send them to an independent adjudicator then the police could do the same because most (not all) vehicles are fitted with cams and then as they say the truth will out. I personally am going to remain firmly sitting on the fence on this issue.

@theclaw

I know somewhere in the British Cycling rules it bans 4th cat only races on open roads due to the riders not having the racing exerience to race on open roads, but not allowing 3rd cats to race on open roads would be pointless. I am a 3rd cat junior but have been racing for nearly 10 years and have ample skills and experience to ride these events. If anything the E/1/2 races are worst on paper as the riders have not much more skill but are going faster and are more desperate to win. On another note, quite a few 3rd cats are riders who have been racing as an E/1/2 for years and have only dropped back down because they dont have the speed to get the points needed to maintain their category, but still have the experience.

regarding races in other countries, they have just as many races for lower categories, but there is more provision made for them. for example, some german and french people of my age that I know raced last year in U16 level races, and even for small regional races, they were run on closed roads, which shows that other countries support lower end races enough to make them safe.

This type of incident happens occasionally and when it does people tend to get upset and come out with "views" that are really not carefully considered thoughts. So here are my possibly not carefully considered thoughts.

To those who say we shouldn't have lower category races on open roads I would point out that it is not the category of rider that makes riders cross the white line.

I raced on open roads for approaching 20 years in 1st, 2nd, 3rd category and junior and Pro-Am events and during that time I saw riders of all categories (including pros) cross the line on the brow of hills and cross solid white lines and saw some very near misses. I also knew one rider who was killed making such a move - a devastating tragedy for family and friends.

There were a handful of occasions when I dropped back to the commissaires car or motorbike and argued with them for allowing dangerous riding.

My experience with the police has varied between excellent and rubbish but in this case I'll leave those who were there to comment.

So what is the solution?

1) Race officials applying the rules consistently and fully
2) Rider pressure on race officials to apply the rules properly because the officials are supposed to ensure the safety of all those riding
3) Peer pressure among riders on safety matters. I've seen many riders warned about dangerous riding by fellow competitors. We've seen the top pros in the world stop racing when conditions were too dangerous
4) Support the police whenever they take action against those actually braking the rules of the road in or around a race (cyclists and drivers)
5) Challenge the police through official channels when they fail to act appropriately

The solution should not and must not be to stop racing on open roads. The cost of road closures would be prohibitive and very few races would take place - hardly ideal development for a sport with ambition for the future.

cant help but think that maybe getting better relationships between BC and motor racing circuits might be the answer

but apart from that i'm one of these 3/4 racers and i prefer the open road to going round & round in crits, and the question is does behavior change round the country? i raced the cdnw series, and a few other rr in yorkshire area and i haven't experienced any of these problems with traffic being intolerant

there are a few silly riders but mostly they all seem sensible and understand what is ok and what isn't

i would understand if it was banned but i dont think it would be the right decision for the sport

I do wonder why cyclists crossing a solid white line is a problem when i am overtaken, often dangerously by Motorists crossing solid white lines every day?

Then again my dealing with Glos. Pol. suggest that cyclists are a nuiscance and if they all disappear so much the better.

Quote:

What power entitles a race marshall to request that other road users, on open roads, going lawfully about their business, wait for "30 seconds" at a junction for a peleton to pass?

Any member of the public has the right to ASK traffic to wait - you'd ask traffic to wait/slow down if there was an accident ahead for example or you might warn a fellow motorist of a hazard ahead. What the motorist chooses to do with that request is up to them - if they choose to go flying through regardless then you'd best hope that all the riders are behaving themselves and aren't on the wrong side of the road!

And some regions have legally empowered signs and trained marshals now similar to the signs that workmen or school crossing patrols use - the sign has the legal power to stop traffic and it's an offence for the motorist to ignore that.

For a moment I thought I'd accidently logged on to the RAC or AA news page!

Firstly, there's two sides to every story and in this case its no different. See the statement made by Surrey League:
http://ukcyclesport.com/all-news/82-lat ... ue-respond

They clearly felt that the police actually compromised the safety of the riders. From members of our club that participated in the race I hear this was also the view of other cyclists and the ambulance driver that accompanied the Marshalls at this event. Whilst I was not there, our club did help Marshall an event on the same circuit in May and we encountered unnecessary hostility from drivers and locals, eg. not stopping when being asked to wait 30 seconds at a junction for the peloton to pass.
I am not condoning cyclists that break traffic laws (such as crossing an unbroken white line) or put themselves or others in unnecessary danger during a race. They should be disqualified from the race immediately. However I have the impression there was some strong lobbying of the police from local NIMBYs.

Some of the comments accompanying this article are pretty thoughtless:
1. If you restrict road races to U23 or Cat 1s you will immediately cut off all grass roots support. These races are supported by volunteers why should they give up time to assist in events with such restricted access?
2. If all races under Cat 1 or Elite level had to be on closed circuits that would be the quickest way to kill any interest - imagine 80 laps of HogHill!
3. Why is it people seem to assume all crashes are caused by someone with a £6K carbon super bike - not that I have one.

Not sure people race Surrey League because they genuinely believe they have a chance of becoming pro. Rather that they enjoy racing on the road? There are loads of 3/4 standard riders who don't do stupid stuff - why deny them that enjoyment?

In civilised countries, they close the roads for bike races, even little village fête and kermis affairs.

WTF can't we do that?

theclaw

How would you ever get to that standard without competing?

Some Fella.

Unfortunately we dont have the luxury of being able to ride races on closed roads. Rolling road block is the only way that racing can take place and that is the grass roots of racing that larger scale success is built up on.

In Wales the NEG have the power to stop traffic as the race passes but not in the UK. I think this would be a great help over here. Lots of cars do not slow down despite having at least 2 lead cars clearly signed and motorbike outriders passing.

Yes you do get some idiots partaking in stupid manouveres to move up the bunch but in my experience it is in the minority. They will also get a lot of stick from other riders about it.

This will become more and more of an issue, and as mentioned above, with more and more riders competing whilst remaining outside of the traditional club structure, £6k carbon superbikes and the rest, crashes and accidents will become more frequent. Personally I don't believe there should be any such thing as racing for anybody below a 2nd cat ability - in other European countries it doesn't exist - 3rd/4th cat standard riders should go and do sportives like they do in France/Belgium/Italy. With scarce resources, we can't afford to indulge people who think that at 34 and with a new Colnago, they are the next Cavendish. Instead we should focus on junior, under 23 and E/1/2 cat racing and then have rolling road closures put in place for them. With less racing the police may find more love for us when we do put on something for aspiring riders and accomplished amateurs rather than for bankers and financiers from Dynarod CC. This would also lead to better quality sportives for those that are unable to race to a sufficient standard - this may sound harsh but it is the reality when we are competing on busy roads. No 3rd cat standard rider should be allowed to race on open roads with cars coming the other way. In a sportive, it's clear - you race your mates, but only 100% within the rules of the road.

Ahhhhhhhh! Surrey League (Waves of nostalgia flooding back to me ) Got some of my best scars from these races Pretty faded now. But it is good to see that it is still going.... and causing controversy. If someone is splatted all over the front of an on coming car after crossing a solid white line....Saying that 'he got carried away' is an understatement! Do not want to vouch for all Police officers but in general they demonstrate good judgement. Remember that if the officer let the race continue and someone did 'get carried away'; who gets the blame

Road racing on open roads seems stupid. I'm not sure I could imagine that ever being safe.

I've raced in a few of these open road races. The problem is that the roads are narrow and its hard to move up in the bunch without crossing the line. Provided that it isn't on a blind rise or corner I don't see the problem with it. However, I have seen 2 incidents when people have hit cars in these races from crossing the line and no matter what people say, these road races are dangerous. The roads in England, well Surrey are just too narrow for safe racing. Combined with the quality of the roads and parked cars etc its usually a bit of a dangerous affair. Still, it would be sad to lose proper road racing in the UK.

It's one of the things I hate about road racing - the riders that belt down the outside as the bunch slows for a corner and then chop-in at the front whilst further back you end up coming to a halt. They're often the same riders that get shelled as soon as you hit any form of incline or there's an acceleration from the bunch.

Perhaps fitting videos in commissaires cars and penalising (DQ) repeat offenders would force them to change their habits?

I don't endorse the behaviour of the police either, but feels like there's go to be a compromise it their somewhere?

I agree with the comment on races on unclosed roads.

Problem is riders seem to think as they're racing the highway code does not apply to them.

Reading the link to the blog is also seems that far to frequent crashes are still happening and this probably spooked the police.

Reading the blog reminds me why not to get into road racing!

I don't do the large cat 1 - 2 local chainy because of the risks they run - and that's just in training. It's always been the case but with the sudden influx to racing of more and more sportive riders who don't ride with clubs and don't know how to ride safely in a race group the situation is only getting worse.

Not sure what the answer is. For me I don't ride at speed in groups larger than 10. They're normally people I ride with regularly and so we have more reaction time and better reactions. Anyone taking risks gets a bollocking. It may sound bossy but as BW says 'It's just cycling'. I don't want to die stupidly on the chainy.

Im as big a wet liberal libertarian police hating whinger as the next man but i cant help thinking that gloves-off bicycle racing on unclosed roads is kinda asking for trouble.
Can i speculate that perhaps some of these chaps were getting a little bit carried away and just because one rides a bicycle and is therefore superior to other mere mortals it doesnt stop you being a bit of a div sometimes.

Posted this elsewhere, but have seen nothing to suggest I've misinterpreted the situation:

"Do chipper wannabe pros have the authority to cross solid lines on an open road circuit, or take blind bends on the wrong side of the road, all for the sake of moving up a few places in the bunch, while barging back in at the last minute to avoid oncoming vehicles? Why should I be put at greater risk, whether as a fellow racer or another road user, because some ignorant, selfish oik thinks the rules of the road don't apply during a race? One should forget what the police are doing and stick to the rules, thereby looking after oneself and others. Simple really."

I blogged on a similar kind of theme a little while back:

http://fiftyyearsandcounting.wordpress.com/2012/06/21/its-not-just-drive...

The Cycling Silk linked to an account from his blog, fwiw;

http://firstseasoncycling.blogspot.co.uk/2012/07/corri-dorri-sl-23-road-...