"Et tu, Phil?" Even Liggett starts to doubt Armstrong's innocence

I have to ask when is the TV Film going to come out?

The problem I have here is that we have testimony from riders no evidence of actual drug taking. Its easy to jump on the USADA bandwagon. None of the doping procedures are transparent, the bodies who run it seem hell bent of media time and coverage. The USADA have a witch hunt against one man otherwise why allow only 6 months suspension, withdrawal of criminal procedures and the ability after 6 months to continue riding if and only if they follow the USADA script.

My big problem is this is not transparent. The UCI are an complete incompetent mess and for me so are the USADA. Did LA dope maybe, maybe not. This will rankle with many of you. This is not about being an apoligist for LA but a demand we treat all doping cyclists the same and don't give some who doped in the LA era cheaper punishments than what you can get done now for doping just because they follow the USADA desired script for an assault on one man. Contador got 1 year I believe after a protracted court case. There are many other examples.

By concentrating on LA we do the sport a dis-service as the focus is away from supporting the sport and making sure our voice is heard wanting to make it better NOW. This obsession on LA I feel is way over the top in regards the fact everyone doped at the time. Personally I don't see anything because it was to long ago and is some what irrelevant to the problems NOW that need to be sorted.

I still haven't got round to starting reading the evidence that USADA have provided, but the one nagging doubt I have is how was it possible to evade the testers?

Drugs don't leave your body to an exact timetable, like buses and trains (yes, I know - poor example!). Short of testing themselves in their own lab I cannot see how the riders could ensure that they would pass doping control.

That for me is the biggest unanswered question, because without the answer to that this is not the end of cheating. In fact, it means that worse cheating is going on in other sports that are not as heavily tested.

In fact, for all I know the riders could have been conned into thinking that they were taking EPO when they weren't just for the placebo effect. (Although it seems that deliberately injuring yourself might work even better, not that I recommend it).

What Liggett knew, and when he knew it, remain to be seen. Many of us have our doubts that this stuff is really any sort of "revelation" to him now.

Looking forward, it will be VERY interesting to see what Mr. Bob Roll has to say. He too has a career in cycling analysis and commentary to try to salvage. It's one thing for Phil or Paul to say they were too far removed to really know anything was going on, but I think Bobke is toast.

Oh God. Phil's back on cyclingnews.com. Highlights include "eminent scientist" (name unknown) "witch hunt" (everybody drink!), and sadly, the news that because of contractual commitments he can not retire, which he finds "depressing". (HE'S depressed?)

Liggett cannot hide behind the act of the kindly gent too in love with cycling to see what Armstrong was up to when he and Armstrong are business partners in an African gold mine. A gold mine! Where the workers are as badly exploited as can be to make this gang of white crooks richer.

Armstrong's house of cards is tumbling down and this latest gem tells me that Liggett himself is filthy dirty.

This man should retire and go gracefully.

Too long in the sport and with his head up his ar$e most of the time, his commentary has been soooo boring his whole career, he's lost his way, you can see this. Get him and his muppet mate off our screens and radios. Absolute disgrace ...

Sky coverage is so much better.

Bored of all this now to be honest.

They co-invested in a Ugandan gold mine?

Mm, ok, no questionable stories are going to come out of *that* one.

Sadly Ligget has known the truth too long but burried it so deep in his suitcase of courage he thinks he'll look an utter tw#t coming out to say so.

I doubt he'll ever now have the balls to say so, it's pretty sad really.

Before we're all overcome with sympathy for "Honourable man" Phil Liggett, let's remember he said he could prove the ludicrous fairy story he told on Ballz. Hopefully he will now keep the promise he made and retire. (Fat chance.)

It's a great example of how news people get so close to a subject that they can longer make an impartial assessment. Judging another's moral compass by using your own as a benchmark is always a mistake. Anyone who listened to The RealPeleton over the past 2 years would have heard Boulting and Rendell's sly references to 'Larry' and Imlach's weary raised eyebrow throughout Armstrong's reign told it's own story.

It's a shame how long it's taken for him to wise up. Phil Liggett is an honourable man who's been let down more than the rest of us by Armstrong. I hope he gets past this and has a good 100th TDF next year.

Listening to Partridge Harmon, Chuckles Kirby, and the droning monotone of Kelly is no substitute at all for Liggert's mastery of the English language - or his knowledge of obscure French castles.

Yes he has his head in the sand. But do remember you are watching an older gent coming to terms with the fact that the love of last 15 years or so of his life has just been eviscerated (I mean cycling, not Lance!). It must be tough finding yourself so very wrong when you have been so publicly forthright. His career (like so many others) has been predicated on a lie of someone elses making, lets go easy eh?

Its difficult for Phil I am sure to acknowlege what seems to be likely proof of LA's guilt.

He loves cycling, of that there is no doubt, but he has been misguided in some of his defence of dopers and in other areas, complete erasing of memory.

what an absolute twat this old fart is, always thought he was a winkle, now it's confirmed ..

Hehehe ....hilarious comments

I particularly like

The GC contenders have been playing the waiting game all day, to make sure Motoman gets through before the road closes #newliggettisms

Liggett is blowing up on Twitter now. Check out #newliggettisms

There is nothing nefarious in the the approach Tygart and the USADA had taken in carrying out their due diligence in proving their case. After all, this is their remit! They should be commended for having done their job so well. They started from scratch without the benefit of information collated by the Department of Justice who apparently 2 years to work on it. Whether they were as thorough, I doubt it but remains to be seen! Maybe there were political considerations in that bringing criminal proceedings might further sully the reputation of the US postal service in this affair. I wonder if Liggett is suggesting that LA having Obama's tel.number on speed dial might curry favour, I very much doubt it?

Now that the whole extent of the manipulation of testing protocols is out in the open, have we become so immune that good men do nothing? Or do we simply stick our head in the sand and ignore a festering drug culture.

"America is today the hope of all honorable men who respect the rights of their fellow men and who believe in the principle of freedom and justice." - Albert Einstein