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news
Andy Murray, US Open 2012, Francisco Diez, Wikimedia CommonsAndy Murray slams cycling for lack of skill and too many drugs… not like tennis
Andy Murray, the world number three ranked tennis player, says his sport needs to step up its anti-doping efforts including out-of-competition testing – but maintains that tennis differs from cycling in being primarily focused on the skill of the athlete, something he believes doesn’t apply in cycling, which he claims is more about physical attributes.
“I think there's very little skill involved in the Tour de France, it's pretty much just physical," said Murray, quoted in the Herald. "A lot of the way the teams work now is just science whereas with tennis, you can't teach the skill by taking a drug.
"Virtually the whole of the Tour de France was taking drugs 10 years ago,” he maintained, claiming that since 1990 tennis had seen around “65 positive tests, 10 of them recreational and 30 to 35 performance-enhancing in that time.”
The Olympic and US Open men’s singles champion, speaking in a press conference ahead of this week’s Paribas Paris Masters that was reported by Mail Online and The Herald, added in a sweeping generalisation that apparently went unchallenged: “In one year of the Tour de France you had more than that so I don't think tennis has been that bad. But that isn't to say that more can't be done to make it 100% sure there are no issues."
Admittedly, in the notorious Festina Tour of 1998, there was clear evidence of wholesale doping involving a number of teams, and fewer than half the riders who set out from Dublin finished the race in Paris due to expulsions and withdrawals, but not a single rider actually tested positive.
The truth is that with no test for EPO at the time, the riders had an advantage over the testers, and it was only by seizing the physical drugs that the authorities were able to unravel the scale of the problem.
While cycling clearly still isn’t rid of doping, and in all likelihood never will be, there is a much higher level of testing than is the case in tennis. However, Murray implies that due to the nature of their sport, tennis players have less to gain from using performance enhancing drugs, although there are longstanding rumours linking several leading tennis players to use of steroids in particular to help build their strength.
In the past, he has criticised the intrusiveness of random testing, but now believes it is essential to combat doping, especially in the off season.
“The out-of-competition stuff could probably get better,” admitted the 25-year-old, who revealed he himself had been subject to a random blood test at the weekend.
“When we’re in December, when people are training and setting their bases, it would be good to do more around that time.
“On Saturday night it was completely random and that’s good because we’re not used to doing many blood tests.
“I’ve probably had four or five blood tests this year, but a lot more urine, so it’s obviously completely necessary when you hear things like about [Lance] Armstrong.
“It’s a shame for their sport but how they managed to get away with it was incredible, for so long.”
Critics of tennis’s approach to doping argue however that that the sport must do much more to address the issue and that it does far too little testing particularly of top players.
In 2010, for example, a year that Murray spent ranked between third and fifth in the world, he did not undergo a single out-of-competition test.
During the same year, there were no out-of competition tests on three of the top five ranked women’s players – world number one Caroline Wozniacki, plus Venus and Serena Williams.
Earlier this month, an article on the website of the US magazine Tennis Now explored various hypotheses regarding doping in tennis and pointed out that while according to World Anti Doping Agency Statistics for the period from 2007 to 2011, the International Tennis Federation showed 53 positive tests, there were only 21 anti-doping rule violations recorded in the same period.
The magazine quoted the blog Tennis Has a Steroid Problem as asking: “What accounts for the difference between positive tests and violations? Did players have Therapeutic Use Exemptions allowing them to use a banned substance? Did their 'B' Sample test negative? Did a tribunal find that the players did not commit a violation? If so, what was the reason for their finding?”
While high profile doping cases in the sport remain few and far between – the biggest in recent years being when the American player Wayne Odesnik was caught red-handed with human growth hormone at Brisbane airport, eventually serving a 12-month ban, reduced from an original two years – tennis itself is now facing some uncomfortable questions.
In August, when former US Postal Service team doctor Luis Garcia del Moral was handed a lifetime ban by the United States Anti-Doping Agency, the ITF acknowledged that he had worked with “various tennis players.”
It said that it would help enforce and give effect to USADA’s decision, including “not permitting Dr Garcia del Moral to participate in any capacity in, and denying him accreditation for or access to, any sanctioned tennis event or activity.”
The ITF added: “Players are asked to take careful note of the above when considering who to seek treatment, guidance and advice from in the future.”
Also in Spain, Dr Eufemiano Fuentes, the sports physician at the centre of the Operacion Puerto scandal in which athletes sanctioned were almost exclusively cyclists and non-Spanish nationals, has maintained in the past that he counted tennis players among his clients.
Whether he will name names or provide further details of his activities when the case goes to trial in Madrid in the new year remains to be seen.
Simon joined road.cc as news editor in 2009 and is now the site’s community editor, acting as a link between the team producing the content and our readers. A law and languages graduate, published translator and former retail analyst, he has reported on issues as diverse as cycling-related court cases, anti-doping investigations, the latest developments in the bike industry and the sport’s biggest races. Now back in London full-time after 15 years living in Oxford and Cambridge, he loves cycling along the Thames but misses having his former riding buddy, Elodie the miniature schnauzer, in the basket in front of him.
Latest Comments
- grOg 3 sec ago
Where does it state in the article that Ashley purchased the stock? it does state that Ashley bought the brand and intellectual property, not the...
- rogerwb 2 hours 40 min ago
Jump off the bike and run across. I cycle in trainers though.
- momove 3 hours 43 min ago
Cheers for the lesson! Wasn't expecting one so was pleasantly surprised, especially getting to find the origin of "laconic"!
- ktache 4 hours 30 min ago
Isn't it a rights issue?
- AidanR 5 hours 20 min ago
Same here - it took me by surprise. 10:30am doesn't feel like a dangerous time to cycle; apparently I'm wrong on that.
- Daddy Feebs 5 hours 33 min ago
If anything, it looks a bit like an SL6
- wtjs 6 hours 9 min ago
Other commenters have different views True!
- Daclu Trelub 6 hours 24 min ago
Incredibly bone-headed.
- Sriracha 8 hours 26 min ago
Lidl have a window poster emblazoned, "Black Friday. Starts Sunday".
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83 comments
As a Tennis Cycle and running coach. I have lost a bit or rather a lot of respect for Mr Murray. There wasn't much there is the first place if I am honest.
However Tennis matches can exceed 5 hours if thats not physical I don't know what is. 5 hours is roughly the average of a Tour de France stage. Maybe they don't play everyday admittidily but a tennis match is much more intense over those 5 hours. You can sit in the peleton for 4 with 1 hour of activity.
A grand slam is two weeks. There is definitely a degree of physicality in the Game. Novak Djokovic for instance is an incredibly physically fit player who relies an attrition quite a lot.
I do wonder how many do dope in Tennis though and football is another sport where they play a lot of very intense games every week. Tennis and especially Football will never allow for the sport to be brought down there is too much vested interest in the game.
Notice how football never comes under the spot light. Cycling is much easier game for the authorities with little effective vested interest in the sport and as a result justification for there existence.
I'm not too worried about what Andy Murray says - either about tennis or cycling.
It is likely that tennis like other sports has a drug problem that neither the athletes or the organisations want to fully acknowledge.
The thing that concerns me in this discussion is just how many cyclists seem to think that cycling doesn't require all that much skill. In addition to power here are just some of the skillful attributes required in cycling:
Road racing (as well as track racing, MTB, cyclo-cross, BMX, Speedway etc) requires all of the above in any one event as well as the physcal attributes of strenth, power output, concentration, courage etc.
Someone commented that the skills will already be developed by the time a rider is physically ready to race at a high level. I would contend that skills continue to be developed even after we reach a point where our physical performance drops off (note Chris Froome having honed some skills prior to yesterday's Tour stage).
I just hope that coaches haven't forgotten about all of these skills.
I like Andy Murray, he probably didn't mean any harm. Make allowances, he sucked up to Cameron during his presentation at Wimbledon. That says it all. I like him but he's a feckin wanker.
Bet his Mrs knows how to spend money haha !!! I'm off to take some drugs then I'm off out on my bike. I'll be flying lol
Perhaps, he could be a little more consistent in how he expresses it:
Murray added: "I may miss a flight or a flight could be delayed, yet I have to let Wada know exactly where I will be, even when I am resting. They even turned up at my hotel in Miami while I was on holiday. Tennis has not got a big problem with drugs. I support drug testing and strongly condemn any use of drugs in sport, but there has to be a more realistic and practical way to deal with the problem with tennis players."
Taken from:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2009/feb/06/tennis-andy-murray-anti-doping
Best input on this list - top work mate!
caketaster likes this
Couldn't agree more.
Very odd then that you decide to search out a news item from nearly four years ago to comment on.
Bizarre behaviour
Woops sorry!
Precious cyclists, take a while to read these comments. It's pathetic. You're all so quick to be offended, man up for goodness sakes. Most of what he says is true.
There a quite a lot of quotes from Murray on this. Kudos to the journalist who managed to stay awake long enough to write it all down.
He's mostly right, isn't he? Admittedly, in descending and sprinting there is skill, but I think that courage (descending) and power (sprinting) are more important.
So, yes cycling has/had a massive problem with doping. And it's more to do with stamina and courage than skill. But that doesn't stop it being brilliant.
Do fans of athletics get this shirty if someone says that the 100m takes little skill, and is just about running fast for a bit?
The majority of top sports people have only ever been involved in their sport, and don't know what it takes to be the best at another.
He's probably right that in terms of the training at top level, tennis will focus more on the skills required to hit the ball, while cycling will focus on the fitness/speed/endurance required to race (as the skills of actually riding the bike will probably be complete by that stage). You don't often here cyclists talking about going back to basics and relearning how to ride, but you do hear tennis players talking about taking their serve apart and relearning it.
He has a point in saying he doesn't know how they got away with it for so long. They shouldn't have, and wouldn't have if everyone was doing their job properly.
And he said there should be more testing in tennis, so he isn't saying that it's clean.
Also, the press doesn't always quote people accurately. Even the title of this article is a bit misleading, he's not critical of cycling for lack of skill, he said there's little skill & it's mainly physical. In comparison to tennis, it pretty much is. His issue with drugs in cycling was during the 1990s, it isn't reported that he thinks the teams today are all still using drugs. He also says that he welcomes more testing in tennis, so he isn't saying that tennis players don't use drugs.
Easy for Murray to say when he competes in an elitist sport where your mummy is your coach or you need parents with deep pockets to mortgage their house for the best coaching to develop that skill!!!
Still, he has FINALLY won a Grand Slam so that makes him an expert on everyone elses sport. Remove head from arse and smell the roses Murray, you may have some respect then for other sports and then gain some more respect from other.
Better still get on a bike at the top of a mountain and see how any minutes you are behind an average club rider at the bottom, let alone a pro. Then he can compare his skill!!!
Ill thought of comment by him but what do you expect, probably too much sunshine from wherever he is away traing while real sportsmen are out training on bikes in all weathers!!
Murray put so much effort into improving his physique and strength when he was struggling to win games. Now that he is benefiting greatly from that extra advantage it seems strange for him to refer to Tennis as being purely a skill game. That's nonsense as performance in most sports would benefit from that bit extra strength or stamina. Therefore, drugs and doping will always be a temptation in any sporting field.
As for the skill element, I will refrain from commenting on such an intricate point as I admit that I do not have sufficient knowledge to allow me to do so. Perhaps Andy Murray should have a rethink on that basis himself, or at least have a word with his Mum.
As a fellow Scot, I have always supported his efforts on the Tennis circuit, but I have to admit that his personality is not on the same level as his game. Perhaps the success of the GB cycling team and Brad Wiggins has made him a little envious?
Talking of skill in cycling, I remember (of all people) Lance Armstrong being forced to go off road in the TdF. The skill he used in not winding up a tangled mess of sinew and bicycle frame matches anything I've ever seen in tennis. Shame about the old "you know what" though.
If his theory that there is more skill than strength involved in tennis then why is there a need to split the sport by gender? Unless he's wanting to open another can of worms within his own sport rather than poking sticks at another...
What cycling really needs right now is constructive input to help rebuild both it's reputation and also it's governance. Best example of this right now is #fansbackedcycling and it's that sort of collective that I think we (and that's the you and me "we") should be looking to gain some momentum at grass roots level. The pro's could also then do their part at the tree-top level by following some of Mr Lemond's recent advice and rising up against the UCI
That's just my tuppence worth though:)
If
"In 2010, for example, a year that Murray spent ranked between third and fifth in the world, he did not undergo a single out-of-competition test."
then this
"since 1990 tennis had seen around “65 positive tests, 10 of them recreational and 30 to 35 performance-enhancing in that time.”"
isn't a suprise.
As you tire your concentration and skill levels fade, that plus high prize money means there will be drugs at the top level. To the extent of endurance sports like road racing, maybe not, but then again it wouldn't suprise me if it was a similar level if testing is lax.
It was the late eighties, early nineties when cycling's drug problem really took off, as reflected by written memoirs by Lauren Fignon etc, and common knowledge of the various scandals.
It was also, (IIRC) the late eighties, early nineties when tennis fundamentally changed due to the escalating muscular power developed by the players - anyone remember all the controversy over the women's grunting over every shot?
It wouldn't surprise me to find an omerta in many other sports, and I think tennis is a strong contender for this.
So... Man who finally manages to win something in a silly game played with fluffy green balls, invented to keep the bored Victorian middle class occupied on their lawns and universally taken up by schoolgirls, slags off one of the few real sports there is.
Piss off, Murray.
Spot on Tony.
I don't understand the overreaction here either. We criticise athletes for keeping to the Omertà, then slate them when they actually voice an opinion. Yes, he makes some rather ignorant sweeping statements about cycling, but he recognises that tennis can do far more and wants an increase in out of competition testing.
No doubt other sports will face their own drug revelations in years to come, let's celebrate the fact that we are facing up to the issue and not sticking our heads in the sand like so many other sports (football, US sports etc etc etc).
Some people on these forums are far too precious about our sport. We are getting pelters left right and centre because there was/is a problem. Let's face it, if the UCI had their way we'd still be in the dark about some of these revelations from the USADA report. If we pretend that all is well now we'll be facing the next Festina/US Postal in another 10 years time.
Tennis and Cycling are, surprise surprise, very different. One of them involves a ball,and hence tends to require ball skills. One of them involves a bike,and involves bike skills.
I don't doubt that Murray knows that, and was just trying to point out that stamina enhancing drugs will be more effective in cycling than in tennis. However, that doesn't mean that tennis doesn't have a drug problem.
I think Murray is mostly right, Tennis is a sport of skill, can you imagine two supremely fit blokes trying to play tennis together? It would be hilarious if they aren't regular tennis players.
Golf, same.
'Golf same'??
The rule of thumb is that if you get sweaty and/or out of breath whilst letting your boss win it's technically still a sport.
Golf is not a sport - it's a leisure activity like darts and dominos except more expensive.
Yes, 'golf same', it's a sport/game (whatever, I don't really care), I was just trying to point out to the hard of thinking of this usually intelligent forum that tennis is actually quite difficult to play - no matter how fit you are, which goes the same for golf. Understand now?
A (classic) pathetic example of a lack of skill in cycling:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RxXqQqAc2pA
I don't see anything other than naivety in his comments and it is not worth getting worked up about it. In the end his point is correct though, that testing is not thorough enough in Tennis and other sports.
I think Andy should take a tiny wee loook at the website tennishasasteroidproblem before he gets anymore stupid.
Cough...Nadal....cough....Operation Puerto..
Actually, he's probably not that wrong in claiming many cyclists were using drugs in the 1990s. And he's not wrong in claiming tennis requires more individual skill than the Tour. I'd like to see him try a BMX race though as that needs speed and skill.
But I doubt tennis was that clean of drug use in the past. And I'm sure there are plenty of other sports with a murky past. Just think about a sport like rugby for instance, which requires huge physical strength. Do you really think all the players got their muscle from working out?
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