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Of course it has to be in Scotland, where judges are in a competition for the lowest punishment possible.

And to think, from Monday, people will be jailed for fake crimes.

dubwise wrote:

And to think, from Monday, people will be jailed for fake crimes.

"Stealing the moon"?

Clearly this driver thought his was a "fake crime" because he fought it in court.  Presumably "they just ran out / I didn't see them so it's tragic but it's not my fault".

As Roadpeace point out there is definitely a belief that "accidents happen".  People don't see driving as something you've chosen to do - and thus increasing your risks of being the agent of someone else's injury or death.

Lots of people (and indeed some police forces...) seem to think that taking what seem to be illegal actions on the roads that don't lead to serious injury or death are not even "fake crimes" but effectively no crime at all.

There isn't an awful lot in the linked article to help figure out what happened - it reads as though the toddler scooted out into the road and the driver had time to react but didn't because they were distracted?  The court heard he was paying attention to a different potential hazard; I daresay most people who comment here probably suspect he was more likely to be playing with the car stereo or his phone.

On the one hand, if you live in the street and know kids play in it then you should take that into account whilst starting your journey, but on the other hand it is totally plausible that this was an uncharacteristic momentary lapse with tragic consequences?

I don't know how this should compare with a similar outcome where the cause was an inability to stop in time because the car had defective brakes and the driver knew it before setting off?  

I'd certainly argue that this incident as presented doesn't merit as severe a punishment as most of the aggressive driving videos we see on road.cc where the driver has made a conscious decision to use their car to put someone in danger of serious injury or death?

I have 2 questions about this:

1) why was he reversing out of his drive and into an area near a play area without a guide

and 

2) if he knew there woulkd be children around, why didn't he reverse into his drive.

I thought that the price of the life was the £40 victim surcharge.😞

More details here : https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/local-news/jury-trial-man-accused-cau...

If you look on google maps it shows the childrens play area completely fenced in, the road looks quite wide.

From what is described in the article, using the fact that he was looking at children in a park rather than the road in front of him as a defence is beyond my comprehension.

He also drove off after the collision but did return a short while later.

Another article here : https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/newsletter/newsletter-news/dumfries-driver...

Quote:

Dalrymple had pleaded not guilty to the charge. .....

Alexandru’s parents, George and Cristina, welcomed the majority guilty verdict.

 

In a statement, they said: “We are relieved by the guilty verdict delivered today.

“We feel that justice has been done for our son, Alex.

“Our family, including our oldest son, can now look to the future.

“We wish to acknowledge the hard work of our legal representatives and the support of our friends, family and the local community.” "

I wonder what the parents think now.

From the roadcc article

Quote:

Sheriff Colm Dempsey said it was impossible to comprehend the impact of the death of one’s child and that the sentence could in no way reflect the loss suffered.

Well this one certainly doesn't. I have no problem with no jail, especially at the moment, but a one year ban is no where near enough and the fine is an insult to the parents. You can't afford a momentary loss of concentration when in control of a machine that can inflict such damage on another human being.

"He also drove off after the collision but did return a short while later."

I was doing a talk to some sixth form (or whatever it's called nowadays) students last week and this came up in the context of getting a job in my old industry.

If the background checks throw up a speeding fine, or a due care and attention offence then as long as you're remorseful, we can look past it.  People are human and they make mistakes, especially when young (and if you tell me you've never, even as a teenager, done something which could have resulted in someone getting badly hurt, I don't believe you).  

However, if the background checks throw up failing to stop at the scene or getting behind the wheel after drinking then we can never look past those because they reveal a character failing that makes someone difficult to trust.  

Failing to stop after hitting a toddler?  Now THAT has to be jail-time and a very long ban indeed.

The "momentary lapse in concentration" sh1te, more likely a habitual series of driving without care through residential areas.  FFS its a cul-de-sac with a small play park, a true momentary lack of concentration would likely have resulted in kid bouncing off a bumper at worst given an appropriate speed for that area!

Alexandru had suffered “55 separate injuries” and “the most significant injuries were to the head”.

And he thought he'd hit a scooter  - because he was by a park? But he didn't think there might be a child with the scooter.

The worst part of this is the message sent other motorists that a "momentary lapse in concentration'' is no big deal. Why bother to concentrate on your driving if there are no consequences for failing to do so?

Nail him.

Did they actualy swerve towards you or something to make you think it was a punishment pass? I can see none of the sterotypical, 'get in the cycle lane' reasons, just an ignorant barsteward in a car who can't be held up for two seconds whilst the road clears and carries on regardless.  I hope the police take action!

You can see the white car only cm away and the driver only gave me 20cm. It's uphill and straight, so he barrelled through with no care at all.

I hadn't even noticed the white car!  WTAF were they thinking??? 

"Must get in front. Must get in front"

If they were thinking at all.

Being *very* generous but possibly the usual MGIF plus:

• incompetent observation and roadcraft - failure to notice oncoming vehicles / estimate the time and space needed to pass safely
• ...coupled with - when they did notice - inability to understand that the middle pedal can be used in these situations to save your blushes and indeed crashes.

Yes but I'm an entitled driver and I should not have to use brakes except to stop at my destination and everything else can get out of my way. Cyclists, pedestrians, other drivers, traffic lights... even buildings, fields and hills while they're at it.

I had a white van man yesterday who decided he couldnt possibly wait behind a parked car for me to pass, so I chose not to get out of his way, till he had to slow down.

that was the point I noticed he was holding a coffee cup in one hand, as he remonstrated at me with his other free hand, maybe it was one of those new self driving vans.

Fields you say ?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-england-norfolk-68661837

So needless

Otherwise law abiding drivers? ... thinking about the "often further crimes come to light when arresting those committing driving offenses" - albeit this seems a "blatant wrong'uns" case.

Quote:

Jablonski, from Carlton Colville near Lowestoft, admitted causing death by dangerous driving and other offences and was jailed at Norwich Crown Court for 12 years.

His son Thomaz Urbaniak, 26, of Newmarket, Suffolk, who was a passenger in the car, was jailed for two years after admitting aggravated vehicle taking and burglary of a commercial premises.

Think he was already disqualified from driving too.

Just for a moment though think without the police chase and the subsequent referral to IOPC,but same crash happens, does he get the same jail term ?

thats incredibly generous, my assumption is their thinking goes something like

• I will fit through that gap even if I force others to get out of my way.
• theyre just a cyclist anyway

Hirsute wrote:

Worst punishment pass I have ever had.

90kph @ 2.5T

Strong winds also.

If you are being generous, they should lose their license as they didn't realise what they were doing. 

If you are being realistic, they should be in prison because they did know what they were doing. 

Patrick9-32 wrote:

If you are being generous, they should lose their license as they didn't realise what they were doing. 

If you are being realistic, they should be in prison because they did know what they were doing. 

One way to find out is to put a member of the driver's family on the bike and ask them to repeat the manoeuvre.

Essex police have come back with course or conditional offer for what I categorise as borderline dangerous driving. Disappointing.

Cyclists outperform drivers again.