Confusion as driver blames 20mph zone for preventing her overtaking cyclists... despite them riding at the speed limit; Huge Drum & Bass On The Bike crowd; Thibaut Pinot retirement party; Anyone for cycling limbo?; Weekend round-up + more on the live blog

I wonder if they were wearing a chest rig as the camera is way too steady for hand-held and driving.

Always possible the car is a left hooker.

They are a twat no matter what

Of course she was. There is a 20mph zone going into Kingston - it's about a mile or so along the Portsmouth Road. The majority of drivers go 30-40mph along it until they are 'held up' by someone like me driving at or below 20mph. Once the 20mpher turns off, they're back up to 30-40mph (apart from past the one speed camera, of course, where the brake lights are on for a fair while).

I'm just back from Wales. There was some issues with signage in some locations but otherwise I didn't have any issues and it all seemed very sensible.
I would need some local help but that's the B5106 through Castell I would be surprised if it was 20mph all along there. In fact she drives past a temporary 20mph sign that seems to cover just the stretch past the pub.

Jimmy Ray Will wrote:

I could see no real reason why that road would need a 20mph limit at all.

It depends on the reason for the limit. Plenty of people say "I don't mind 20mph outside schools etc" (of which it seems there are a few along that road). But Welsh government rationale for making it wider than that is because they want people to be safe everywhere, not just outside schools.

Jimmy Ray Will wrote:

Watching that video, I can't see the 20mph rule lasting for long. For the opening part of that ladies rant, I could see no real reason why that road would need a 20mph limit at all. Taking her at face value, I can't believe there are 4+mile stretches of unbroken 20mph limit road.

Is she deliberately driving on the most urban / suburban roads possible or something?

Either she's full of bullpoo, or those speed limits have been applied in an overal draconian way.

As an aside, I love her freudian slip when she mentions 25mph. Looking at the video, she was clearly driving above 20mph for much of it, lol. 

I thought that the principle was that, in Wales, all the roads which were previously 30mph limit are now 20mph limit (except where an exception/exemption has been applied for).

Strictly speaking, the default speed limit for "restricted roads" (typically those with regular streetlights) has been reduced. In theory I think there could previously have been 30mph roads which are not restricted roads (the 30mph limit may have been imposed by some other order) and the limit on those won't automatically have changed to 20.   

Don't forget they could (and still can) apply to vary the limit also.  The fact of this flexibility has unfortunately been misrepresented.  Almost like "x minute neighbourhoods / cities", which may have sounded like a sensible principle until the government recently confessed it was after all just a sinister plot to trap us all in our homes!  (Who by ... er, well not them or Conservative councils, obviously.)

One of the issues I had was that they don't seem to use the smaller signs along the way. On one road I passed a 40mph sign coming out of a village, all good, and crossed a main road using a roundabout. No obvious sign, houses and lamp posts so slowed to 20mph. It was still 40mph! Basically, the last large speed limit sign you saw is the one that applies. That did seem a bit crazy!

Yes, around me there are a couple of places where I'm unsure. Apparently they are no longer allowed to use the smaller 20mph 'repeater' signs on restricted roads anymore, as it's simply the default limit (though there is a grace period to remove them).

Do you not drive?

The default limit in England is 30mph. That means, it's 30mph on all roads except where designated otherwise. These 30mph roads have entry signage and street lighting. Repeaters are used where there is no streetlighting.

On all other speed limit roads repeaters are required.

So.. in Wales the default limit is now 20mph. This applies to all existing 30mph roads, and is as above clear by the presence of entry signage and streetlighting.

30 mph roads are no longer the default so streetlighting is irrelevant and repeaters are now required.

In your case above, the signage was clear, it remains 40mph (with regular repeaters) until signage to say otherwise. Streetlighting doesnt indicate a change of speed.

bikeman01 wrote:

Do you not drive?

The default limit in England is 30mph. That means, it's 30mph on all roads except where designated otherwise. These 30mph roads have entry signage and street lighting. Repeaters are used where there is no streetlighting.

On all other speed limit roads repeaters are required.

So.. in Wales the default limit is now 20mph. This applies to all existing 30mph roads, and is as above clear by the presence of entry signage and streetlighting.

30 mph roads are no longer the default so streetlighting is irrelevant and repeaters are now required.

In your case above, the signage was clear, it remains 40mph (with regular repeaters) until signage to say otherwise. Streetlighting doesnt indicate a change of speed.

That's my point it was 40mph but didn't have repeaters. Is it not possible that, given the infancy of the project, in areas where the 30mph remains they have not yet put in the repeaters.

Abergele Rd
https://maps.app.goo.gl/ymHVF7B7dA45e38N6

bikeman01 wrote:

The default limit in England is 30mph. That means, it's 30mph on all roads except where designated otherwise. These 30mph roads have entry signage and street lighting. Repeaters are used where there is no streetlighting.

On all other speed limit roads repeaters are required.

So.. in Wales the default limit is now 20mph. This applies to all existing 30mph roads, and is as above clear by the presence of entry signage and streetlighting.

30 mph roads are no longer the default so streetlighting is irrelevant and repeaters are now required.

In your case above, the signage was clear, it remains 40mph (with regular repeaters) until signage to say otherwise. Streetlighting doesnt indicate a change of speed.

Not strictly true. In England, Scotland & Northern Ireland - it is 30mph in built up areas and they seem to use street lighting as defining "built up"
In Wales, this is 20mph in built up areas (defined by street lighting)

It there is no street lighting, then (for cars) the "default speed limit" i.e. the speed limit when not otherwise indicated, is 60mph for single carriageway and 70mph for dual/motorway.

Highway Code wrote:

National speed limits

The following speed limits apply to all single and dual carriageways with street lights, unless there are signs showing otherwise:

30 miles per hour (48km/h) in England, Scotland or Northern Ireland
20 miles per hour (32km/h) in Wales

gov.uk Speed Limits

bikeman01 wrote:

So.. in Wales the default limit is now 20mph. This applies to all existing 30mph roads, and is as above clear by the presence of entry signage and streetlighting.

30 mph roads are no longer the default so streetlighting is irrelevant and repeaters are now required.

Streetlighting is not irrelevant, as "restricted roads" (to which the new default applies, absent an exemption) are defined by the presence of streetlights. In practice, yes, a change of speed limit should also have a sign, but the Welsh Gov acknowledges they weren't necessarily all in place from day one.    

Think that location was covered by Ogmios in his recent e-Bike adventures.

Why do you need an argument for learning to ride a recumbent though?

Or what's wrong with "you get more odd looks from people, and there are more custom parts, costing more money - AND you get to go at whoohoo speeds more often downhill, on the flat or even on a slight uphill grade"?

I'm currently heading towards the recumbent rabbit hole due to injury/illness, it's like a whole new world I didn't know existed. So much choice. So many weird looks. So many new tools needed. So much clever engineering. Why would anyone not want to ride a recumbent?

Wish you lots of fun discovering things!  I really recommend reaching out to folks and trying as many as you can.  I hope you're near a friendly dealer (not many - I mean, they're all friendly but few dealers) OR some friendly recumbent owners.  Forget "bike fit" - there's a whole slew of variables to explore.

Although there's always some "niche" stuff many of the modern crop (especially high-racers) are designed with "takes all your standard / favourite high-end components" in terms of wheels / drivetrain.  Obviously you'll not find seats or steerers in Halfords though!

The good thing is that - though expensive in the first place - they tend to hold their value.  So taking the plunge (especially 2nd hand) and finding after a while that e.g. you want more comfort (or alternatively less suspension / flex / a more laid back or lighter machine) you can get back a reasonable chunk of your investment.

Currently although I've also got a diamond framed tourer I'm mostly gravitating towards either lying down or being bolt-upright (roadster-style sit-up-and-beg posture for shopping and short trips).  Either way my back /neck is happier and I avoid pressure on my hands / wrists.

Nearest dealers are about 30 miles away so easy enough to cycle over for a test ride whilst I still can. Taking pressure off hands, neck, and feet main priority, as is engaging different muscle groups.

Having a relationship with a dealer is a good idea - I've sorted most of the standard issues with mine but for getting odd more obscure bits (normally from abroad) it can be much easier to go through a dealer.

OTOH if it's trikes then there are ICE actually building 'em in the UK.

Muscle groups is different again as it seems to depend on the frame and design to a greater extent than uprights.  The ones I've ridden there's the ability to adjust to make the posture more comfy than on a standard road bike BUT there's less scope for the small positional adjustments you might make on an upright and you can't get up on the pedals / stretch your back right out.

Trikes are a lot of fun.  Yes, a bit of extra drag from the 3rd wheel and a fair bit heavier - but going up hills you can't fall off!

On mid-height 2 wheel recumbents I've never had problems being seen during the day.  Rather the opposite - there's definitely a "WTF!" factor at play.  However though I've not yet had any issues there are two situations I'd consider exceptions.  I tend to avoid busy urban traffic on the 'bent and if I am in it I'm much more conservative e.g. tend not to filter, stay in primary and sod people beeping, am extra cautious at junctions.  On a trike I think I'd be even less likely to mix it with congestion.

I've also not yet done much solo night riding.  If I start doing more I'd consider getting a literal Christmas tree for the back (or other super-stimulus, preferably with moving lights / reflectives).  For one you don't have the benefit of moving pedal reflectors visible from the rear.

One word: hills

Not many near me. Not bigguns anyway. And I'm not a stand and mash the pedals sort of rider so hopefully I'll be fine. Due to age will likely go trike so hopefully few stability issues. My only real concern with it all is drivers.

NickSprink wrote:

I thought Velociraptors were supposed to be quick, and if I saw one I don't think I'd be at a standstill

You would run right into their trap then....