“It’s going to take a fatality for something to finally happen”: Cyclists call for “complete rethink” of “very dangerous junction”, after father and child hit by driver on bike lane in shocking collision

Might be interesting to compare another university city with a similar population - s'Hertogenbosch.  Here's an area to the south-west of the city, where there is a big "at grade" crossing of the ring road here ... and no allowance for cycling at all! ...

... because, within about a kilometer,  there are four crossings for cyclists, completely separate from motor traffic (crossings indicated in dark green, some cycle routes in lighter green, main junction highlighted in red - I forgot about accessible colours, sorry...).  And generally they're actual cycle paths, not shared use of course.

One bridge and three underpasses.  And the latter are straight through, no having the UK arrangement of having to wind around a ramp. (It's far more inviting when you can see through the tunnel / there aren't corners where peole can hide).

The only place I can see where there's a large-ish road with an at-grade cycle crossing is at the top left, indicated in red / orange.  I suspect the motor traffic levels aren't too high there though - and it's not across the ring road so speeds should be low.

chrisonabike wrote:

resumably they're not terribly convenient and - being underpasses - not inviting, in the traditional UK style.

Particularly uninviting if you're cycling.

Glad to see they're spending our taxes on motor infra * but still have some to spare for nice signs telling people like us to get stuffed!  (Apparently there's always money in the budget for signs...)

*  Actually all of this is motor infra, including the underpass, the "protective" railing , the sign ... If it weren't for motor vehicles being dangerous it wouldn't be needed.

eburtthebike wrote:

Is it just me, or are the BBC becomming more interested in cycling stories since the hammering they got for the Panorama travesty?

Its just you.

I really don't like being "that guy" when it comes to criticising fellow cyclists, but as far as I can see that was absolutely shocking judgement from the rider, especially a parent with a kid on the back. I've looked at the junction on Streetview (below) and for a start it's clear that they shouldn't have been going straight on at all, that junction is for left and right turns only, the straight on option is clearly marked BUS ONLY; if a bus lane doesn't have signs indicating that it is also permitted for cyclists, it means just that, bus only. It's not a bike lane. The cyclist could have joined the shared path on the left before the junction or taken the left turn and pulled right, either option would've taken him onto the toucan crossing which crosses the junction in two stages. As well as riding across the junction on a bus only lane, the rider clearly either jumps the red or rides through the amber when they could easily have stopped, as the car that is level with them manages to do. Finally, no matter what faults there are with the timings of the lights (which is pretty academic because the cyclist shouldn't have been there at all) the traffic coming from the left has a green light and the most cursory observation should have shown the rider this, instead they have ridden straight out in front of fast-moving traffic. Incredibly lucky not to have been killed as a result of some shocking judgement and really poor riding. I really can't see why campaigners are calling for a complete rethink of the junction when there is a wide toucan crossing to get cyclists across the four lanes of traffic safely and when this incident was only caused by a cyclist disobeying the signage to ride somewhere they shouldn't have been.

Agree. I might have some sympathy with using the bus lane rather than the crossing (though you're right, they shouldn't be using it). Signage could be better in that direction though (e.g. by existing at all), to direct cyclists to join the shared use path. But even if the timings are very tight, it's pretty clear the cyclist must have proceeded on red - when the video starts, the rider is well back from the stop line, the car near them is already braking, and the lights for the traffic on the A40 are already red+amber. They barely had time to get across the first two lanes, let alone the far side. I like to think even if I'd made the bad call to start crossing the junction, I would have stopped in the central refuge and got off onto the crossing.     

[Edited to add:] And in the second crash video on the BBC article, the driver of the car appears to have turned right from an "Ahead Only" lane when presumably the right turn lane would have been showing a red light. Change the timings and speeds by all means, but I don't think those two examples are the ones to justify it.  

I must admit I'd be quite tempted to use the bus lane myself in many circumstances but yes, at the end of the day if you ride where you're not allowed you've got to accept the blame for the consequences…the one improvement that could be made to this junction I think would be a clear sign on the approach saying "Cyclists no entry, use crossing to left", I would guess that many cyclists – maybe the one in this incident – assume that they are allowed to ride in bus lanes and don't realise that there has to be specific permission in the signage.

Another oddity is that in the opposite direction it appears to be a bus and bike lane. If the timings are tight, I can imagine that crossing being hairy. Of course, nothing to stop you using the crossing that way too, but you do seem to be permitted to use the bus lane in one direction, but not the other.   

The TRO for this junction allows cycles through this "bus only" lane: https://tro.trafficpenaltytribunal.gov.uk/TRO/Oxfordshire/OX738.pdf. OCC have a habit of putting "Bis Only" signs at junctions where cycles are allowed.

> the straight on option is clearly marked BUS ONLY; if a bus lane doesn't have signs indicating that it is also permitted for cyclists, it means just that, bus only

This is poor signage.  If cycling through that lane is not allowed then how is this bus+cycle lane to be accessed?  You can't reach it from the A40.

https://maps.app.goo.gl/mVfg12zYeLBRhFQN6

Someone in Oxford's highways departments perhaps needs to revisit this junction's signage, because it's ambiguous.

Accessibility for all wrote:

This is poor signage.  If cycling through that lane is not allowed then how is this bus+cycle lane to be accessed?

As per Peterjbdk's post, the TRO and signage do appear to be out of alignment.

In answer to your question, though, anyone cycling across the toucan crossing would then be discharged into the section of road signed as bus+cycle.

This does appear to be a right mess (the TRO / on-road layout discrepancy). But Accessibility for all is right that the signage needs massive improvement - if bikes are not supposed to use the bus lane, you need to tell them where to go all the way back here. 

Except that layout's clearly not appropriate for cyclists leaving and joining the road there. Obviously the real problem here is that people shouldn't be approaching that point while cycling at all, but rather should have pushed their bikes until they reach the start of the shared path...

I took that to be where the shared path *should* start, because in the opposite direction it's where cyclists are told to dismount (though no end of route / rejoin carriageway signs). It's a total mess.

But presumably they a) did something (and can proudly say so) and b) successfully used up an active travel budget / got a funding tranche...

So "mission accomplished" / "we have delivered on our commitment..."!

Cllr. Gant says - after the cyclist collision - the signals are "according to the guidelines", he (or rather the officers) may well be referring to TRAFFIC ADVISORY LEAFLET 1/06 Part 4 of 4, which gives an intergreen time of 7 seconds in this case. They should be using LTN 1/20 for cycling which gives an intergreen time of 10 to 11 seconds, which would have given the cyclist enough time to get across. A change to signal timings could be made by OCC now!!

Something something road tax, bikes shouldn't be on the roads, war on motorists etc etc