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news
Greater Anglia intercity train (via greateranglia.co_.uk)Dunwich Dynamo cyclists told not to take train home – because new rolling stock has limited bike spaces
Cyclists taking part in next month’s Dunwich Dynamo have been told by Greater Anglia not to take the train home – because its new rolling stock has limited space for bicycles.
> Cycling UK slams "awful" cycle storage on GWR's high-speed trains
In the past, the operator has laid on trains from Ipswich with guard’s vans to help many of the participants in the all-night summer ride from London to the Suffolk Coast return to the capital with their bikes, although it has had to restrict numbers at times.
But the company has said that its new intercity trains, which now run on the route, have space for just six bicycles each – and will be unable to cope with the expected demand from cyclists who have completed the 120-mile ride, which this year takes place on the night of Saturday 24 and Sunday 25 July.
Kim Bucknell, Head of Customer Service East, Greater Anglia, said: “Unfortunately we are unable to support the Dunwich Dynamo this year and we are unable to offer mass transit for the large number of cyclists involved.
“Our new intercity trains have six cycle spaces each and there is no limit on the number of folding bikes we can carry, but this is not sufficient for the number of event participants.
“We are advising cyclists to find an alternative way to transport their bikes back to London.
“We’re sorry not to be able to help participants, but these restrictions are in place for the safety of our passengers and these rules will also help to maintain a reliable and punctual service.
“We would like to thank the cyclists and organisers in advance for their cooperation and understanding."”
In fact, the Dunwich Dynamo has no organiser – it began in 1993, when a group of couriers left a London pub one Friday evening, headed east, and didn’t stop till they hit the North Sea.
In the three decades since, it has continued to grow in popularity and, prior to the coronavirus crisis, around 3,000 cyclists were taking part each year, meeting at the Pub On The Park at London Fields in Hackney at 8pm for a 9pm start – although some leave earlier, or later before heading to Suffolk via the Essex countryside.
Since 2000, Southwark Cyclists has provided coaches to help participants who have booked a place return to the capital, with their bikes following in a fleet of vans, transporting around 1,000 riders in 2019.
However, the service was suspended last year, and according to an update in the group’s February newsletter it looks extremely unlikely it will happen this time round.
For those making it all the way to Dunwich, therefore, alternative arrangements will have to be made, such as having friends or partners meeting them there with a motor vehicle, while some no doubt will just dip their toes in the sea, get back on their bike, and ride all the way back to London.
Another impact of the coronavirus pandemic is that some of the rest stops along the route which give the event much of its festival atmosphere will be missing – although according to a post on the Dunwich Dynamo Facebook group page, the Fyfield Pit Stop, run by the 1st Moreton and Fyfield Scouts in Essex, will be open.
There is an alternative ride organised by Greenwich Cyclists taking place on Saturday 24 July, also leaving the Pub On The Park although at the earlier time of 5pm, and only going as far as the White Hart in Moreton, a few miles past Epping, for a “hospitality” stop.
After taking suitable refreshments, the idea is to return to Epping via Ongar and take a train – the town is only served by the London Underground Central Line – back to the capital, although restrictions mean that bikes can only be taken as far as Leyton.
Places on that ride can be booked here, with nearly 300 people signed up at the time of writing.
Simon joined road.cc as news editor in 2009 and is now the site’s community editor, acting as a link between the team producing the content and our readers. A law and languages graduate, published translator and former retail analyst, he has reported on issues as diverse as cycling-related court cases, anti-doping investigations, the latest developments in the bike industry and the sport’s biggest races. Now back in London full-time after 15 years living in Oxford and Cambridge, he loves cycling along the Thames but misses having his former riding buddy, Elodie the miniature schnauzer, in the basket in front of him.
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39 comments
Think I'll drive there the day before, leave the car and catch the train home and then do the ride.....Not ideal, but I've missed out on this ride so far and would like to do it. It's a shame that our rail services are not bike friendly. It makes a mockery of our integrated transport policy....but so did John Prescott.
Bear in mind Latitude festival is taking place at Henham that weekend, so traffic,trains,parking will be busier in the area than normal
I was about to do this a few years ago (went out the window due to other events) but tbh, depending on where you live, unless you have a support driver (drop off/pick-up) the logistics become such a pain that it hardly seems worth it. Did London to Brighton years ago; dropped bikes in London day before, drove to Brighton to park car (had to use a mates relatives drive (who I'd never met)) and got a train back to London. A lot of hassle for a 50 miler and the return coach/bike transport only went back to London.
It's a great ride, but I agree, the logistics can be challenging.
If the weather looks good, I'm planning to do the DD and cycle home. Same distacnce again.
The trick is to book yourself a room in advance at the Ship Inn and go exploring before travelling home at your leisure the following day; if family dynamics/annual leave allowance etc. allow of course.
To be fair, I wouldn't expect a "normal" train to be able to carry over 100 (>1,000?) bikes, although I don't see why they couldn't put on an extra guard's van or two as per the good ol' days.
And although six bike spaces is hardly great, it's better than some - I can't remember which operator/rolling stock but I'm pretty sure I've seen some mainline intercity trains with a grand total of two bike spaces.
Because these modern trains dont mix & match what rolling stock they can join up with, theyd have to charter a good ol days style train to do it.
In practice 6, and I still think there is debate they actually can fit 6 it looks more like 4 to me, is equal to what they supported on the old Intercity service, and 50% more than the rural service had. Though there was always a bit of pragmatism you didnt always have to reserve a spot and theyd try and fit you in if they were 'full', occasionally youd hit a brick wall of those are the rules and have to wait for the next train
But the reality is just very few normally travel with bikes on these trains,they are barred from travelling in peaks with them,and there arent many leisure bike users. Anglia once had a hire bike service at most stations that was quietly dropped because no one ever used them.
I do wonder to what extent that is a self-fullfilling prophecy. As some of the other comments on the post make clear (and there are plenty more examples on t'internet) trying to travel by train with a bike is often a complete nightmare - no wonder people don't bother! What would "reality" look like if you could turn up to the station with your bike and just hop on the next train in the same way as every other passenger?
We would like to thank the cyclists and organisers in advance for their cooperation and understanding.
I'm not sure if this is mealy-mouthed, or if these are weasel words.
Anyone who thanks people in advance for their cooperation, to try to ensure they cooperate, should be punished.
It's neither. It's basic politeness.
Basic politeness would not assume that their crap service deserves understanding
As for cooperation, thanking people for something that is not optional is far from polite, it's pretty disingenuous and patronising.
Now a genuine heartfelt apology for not meeting reasonable standards might be considered basic politeness...
Kumquats
So, how many bicycles will be on those trains THIS Sunday?
The 'co-operation', is for cyclists not storming the trains & then having to get off, before the trains can continue.
In a normal year the Southwark Cyclists coach service works very well (unless there are traffic jams & the drivers don't then have enough hours to complete the trip).
Of course, trains aren't close to perfect for a cyclist, but most of the time they're not complete rubbish either, especially the regional ones i.e. not Intercity.
Pass, I daresay not many. As there is little provision there is little demand generated*. I don't take my bike on trains much these days as there is no infrastructure to do so - When there was it made travelling without a car easier, and I did it a lot.
*provision generates demand, AKA build it and they will come - something that has been repeatedly demonstrated by traffic "planners" in this country for decades
Hmmm...18th May
https://road.cc/content/forum/greater-anglia-issues-advice-dunwich-dynam...
I couldnt possibly comment
I guess a charter train is going to add too much to overheads? (See 1960s movie of London CTC going out to Rugby in numbers).
It's been done fairly recently. I have known of Scout groups booking a train from Chester to London and back.
I guess not having an organisation is a bit of a hindrance here though.
Will it ever occur to them just how mindbogglingly stupid it is to buy trains with 6 (six!) bike spaces for a whole train?
You have to book 24 hours in advance too whereas you could turn up on spec and usually get on. I wonder if they overbook like airlines do?
Not exactly overbooking, but i have had a couple of times in the past (before booking was mandatory, just advised. Still don't know if it's mandatory now, stopped using the train) where I have turned up with a bike ticket to find that there is no space despite booking in advance and been told to wait for the next train. Who have then told me that i couldn't take my bike because i had "missed" the train it was booked on.
Also had a replacement bus service refuse to take my bike. And a "fun" trip up to Scotland where a half hour delay on one train made me miss the connecting train (that my bike was booked on) and ended up stuck at the platform being refused boarding with a bike on subsequent trains, eventually sorted but still added several hours to an already long journey.
I remember years back having a similar problem. We were living just north of Southampton. Wanted to go to London for the day. Checked in advance and saw there were track works on the Southampton to London line so allowed for more time to go via the Portsmouth to London line. Booked tickets in advance and confirmed that that was allowed.
We got to London OK. Our event ran till evening and we were back at the train station for the return with just one or two trains left for the day. The guard at the barrier wouldn't let us through. Said there were track works so we couldn't go with bikes. I said we would go via the Portsmouth line and change (at somewhere I can no longer recall). He said it wasn't a "permitted route". I said that we checked before buying the tickets and he said the staff we spoke to were wrong. Eventually the last train had left so we spent the night in London (luckily had friends we could stay with).
Next day we try going to Clapham Junction (as it was closer to our friends house and we didn't want to get the same guy). They said the person who wouldn't let us through were wrong but we had to buy new tickets as our returns had expired. Asked the staff what route we should take. No one was really sure. Eventually we spoke to some manager who said we should go to (somewhere else I forget) and then ask the staff there which connection to take. He wasn't sure which platform we needed. He rang someone. They didn't know. We ended up carrying the bikes up and down stairs to three different platforms before getting on the train.
We get to wherever we were supposed to change and ask the station staff. They told us we should never have been sent there and there are no connections except for the rail replacmeent bus service. We asked the bus driver if he would let us on but he refused. We weren't allowed to go back to London unless we bought more tickets. The station staff said there was nothing they could do.
We decided we would have to cycle home (at elast we were closer than London at this point) but this was pre (me having a) smart phone and I didn't bring a paper map of wherever we were. I asked the staff if they had a map we could have. They gave us a train route map. I asked if they could do a Google Maps route and print it. They said no. So we had to follow the road signs which meant going down the (often dual carriage) A roads. The rail replacement busses would pass us periodically and would wave.
We got home OK after a rather unpleasant ride, and nearly 24h after we had planned. I can't imagine why the UK has so many cars on the road...
Absolutely staggering. This is an absolute travesty, and shows why our current transport policy is so crap. It's not this way by accident, it is directly due to the incompetence and irresponsibility of policy makers.
A fully integrated system ensures that you can get where you need to be in short time using a variety of methods, including active. Public transport must incorporate cycles, wheelchairs etc to become an attractive, feasible alternative to cars. Our current "market lead" model (AKA f*cking lazy govt) is and always has been utterly unfit for purpose.
Jobsworths will jobsworth. But why did you let them? There's a point where you have to put your foot down, insist they give you their answer in writing, and then use it to reclaim the cost of your taxi. In your case, that point was on the first evening.
I suppose they can back that up with data showing how dangerous, unreliable and late running it was when they had trains that accommodated more than 6 bicycles?
Why on earth would they need to do that? do you doubt their word?......
Given it used to add 3-5mins extra to a stop just to get one bike out of the van,because its locked & only the guard is meant to access it,& you hoped he remembered your stop and wasnt at the wrong end of the train & had to run the length of the platform,and he had to unlock the doors to let you get off the train anyway.
Yes I bet they do have that data, in fact the reason they probably didnt officially repeat the time they let 50 bikes per train on is because it completely trashed the timetable and they get financially penalised for missing their punctuality targets.
That certainly doesn't need to be the case. When they used to have a guards van on my local trains they were open and you used them as necessary. There were even a few drop seats in the van - these were the old slam door rolling stock.
A carriage for bikes with seating equivalent to the number of bikes stored might be a solution to the issue.
It comes from private franchise holders being enabled to provide a bare minimum of service (even that's stating it generously...) at a high price whilst simultaneously being subsidised by the taxpayer.
Transport is a necessary public service, and should be treated as such by govt. Our current system is a facking joke.
I was actually pretty impressed with LNER last weekend - I was able to book my bike on the train online when I booked my seat from York to London, and was even able to pick a seat in a carriage next to the space for bikes so I just had to walk through a door to get to it. Saved all the running up and down the platform bit.
However there were only four spaces in that carriage; I guess there might have been another four at the other end, but it's not a lot of bike spaces for a pretty big train.
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