“I wholeheartedly disagree with his approach” – YouTube driving instructor Ashley Neal on CyclingMikey

I apologise. I think my point is still valid, take a read please.
 

ste.gt13 wrote:

I apologise. I think my point is still valid, take a read please.

Okay.

I disagree that reporting/confronting poor and dangerous driving is encouraging road rage. It seems to me that drivers that respond with anger when caught out are behaving like spoilt toddlers and do not have the emotional maturity to be allowed to drive.

I can't think of any other activity where we (well not me) excuse violent behaviour and then try to persuade people to accept law breaking and to not confront the criminals (excepting possibly where they are carrying guns). In general, the police are thought of as an extension of the public (i.e. policing by consent) and it is the duty/right of every member of the public to confront law breaking even though that may put themselves at risk. It's a particularly bizarre argument that confronting a law breaking criminal puts everyone else at risk and I don't see any evidence to support that view.

I think Ashley Neal is being disingenuous with his attitude towards Mikey and personally, I think it's a method of getting exposure. I don't believe that Ashley has made any significant contribution to road safety, whilst Mikey most certainly has.

Your first sentence on this site is

"As a cyclist and reading these comments, I hate cyclists."

This gives rise to the question - "do you hate yourself?"

I don't see how you contrive this as bullying when it is a question about what you actually wrote.

Sure why not

"Encourage road rage" - I know the point is "why publish" but I think you'll find the rage has already occurred - as it was being filmed.  I very much doubt that - aside from a few road.cc posters and Ashely Neal - the majority of drivers are viewing these videos anyway.

I struggle with the concept that bad drivers up and down the country are stoking their ire like beserkers on CyclingMikey then going out to wreak revenge.  And if they were doesn't that suggest they're people who are going to cause problems regardless?  Maybe that's what they're watching on their phones in traffic though - that would explain Chris Eubank.

In those videos what you were seeing was "Person breaks law(s) by acting in a manner which endangers others and when challenged about it or prevented from continuing to break the law becomes very angry".  So if that's what you mean by "encourages road rage" then you have a point.  But then I myself would also be guilty of "encouraging litter-dropping rage" and "encouraging thwarted-violence rage".

As someone who cycles sometimes I'm sad you've got to the "I hate myself and I want to drive" point.

P.S. Maybe you should also have a word with all the speed cameras which are likely inciting "speed rage" and also all those bollards (sometimes illuminated and retroreflective) encouraging "road infrastructure rage".  That's making the place less safe for us all.

chrisonatrike wrote:

"Encourage road rage" - I know the point is "why publish" but I think you'll find the rage has already occurred - as it was being filmed.  I very much doubt that - aside from a few road.cc posters and Ashely Neal - the majority of drivers are viewing these videos anyway.

I struggle with the concept that bad drivers up and down the country are stoking their ire like beserkers on CyclingMikey then going out to wreak revenge.  And if they were doesn't that suggest they're people who are going to cause problems regardless?  Maybe that's what they're watching on their phones in traffic though - that would explain Chris Eubank.

In those videos what you were seeing was "Person breaks law(s) by acting in a manner which endangers others and when challenged about it or prevented from continuing to break the law becomes very angry".  So if that's what you mean by "encourages road rage" then you have a point.  But then I myself would also be guilty of "encouraging litter-dropping rage" and "encouraging thwarted-violence rage".

As someone who cycles sometimes I'm sad you've got to the "I hate myself and I want to drive" point.

P.S. Maybe you should also have a word with all the speed cameras which are likely inciting "speed rage" and also all those bollards (sometimes illuminated and retroreflective) encouraging "road infrastructure rage".  That's making the place less safe for us all.

What really infuriates me are those concrete posts in front of shops to stop ram-raiders - they're just an incitement for ordinary people to crash into shops (see car-hits-building-thread for details).

I hate those abstract posts too.

chrisonatrike wrote:

 

In those videos what you were seeing was "Person breaks law(s) by acting in a manner which endangers others and when challenged about it or prevented from continuing to break the law becomes very angry".  So if that's what you mean by "encourages road rage" then you have a point.  But then I myself would also be guilty of "encouraging litter-dropping rage" and "encouraging thwarted-violence rage".

As someone who cycles sometimes I'm sad you've got to the "I hate myself and I want to drive" point.

P.S. Maybe you should also have a word with all the speed cameras which are likely inciting "speed rage" and also all those bollards (sometimes illuminated and retroreflective) encouraging "road infrastructure rage".  That's making the place less safe for us all.

I'm a cyclist, I've worked in the industry for 7 years.
I drive, I've driven farm machinery to HGV's. I look at everyone's viewpoints like Ashley. 
Encouraging road rage is not a good idea, that's Ashley's message. 
If you spark up a driver on the wrong day, you or others around you could be injured or dead if they snap. As Ashley put it, feel free to record and report, let the police do their job. You raging at them will probably make it worse or encourage the driver to rage at cyclists even more. 

But then Ashley states he doesn't report bad driving he sees because it might encourage road rage and abuse against learner drivers. First off, that ship has sailed (look at Rendalls video where even a driving instructor speeds past and bullies another learner). But now he and you are stating don't confront, just report, but then expect to be bullied because another cyclist might have reported that driver in the past but didn't confront. 

Surely if drivers think the learner car or the cyclist has camera which could record their wrongdoing, the message should get through that don;t do anything wrong around them. Of course I haven't covered all the dashcam footage that gets submitted as well.....

ste.gt13 wrote:

I'm a cyclist, I've worked in the industry for 7 years.
I drive, I've driven farm machinery to HGV's. I look at everyone's viewpoints like Ashley. 
Encouraging road rage is not a good idea, that's Ashley's message. 
If you spark up a driver on the wrong day, you or others around you could be injured or dead if they snap. As Ashley put it, feel free to record and report, let the police do their job. You raging at them will probably make it worse or encourage the driver to rage at cyclists even more. 

The part in bold is correct - but surely that should point out the problem here?  One of the things we need is to keep individuals who have such poor control that can snap and kill others from the machinery which makes this so easy.  (I'm mainly about removing the motor vehicles from being around people cycling and walking completely but let's have both).  Angry people could of course kill me with their bare hands.  That might take a bit longer however.  My aforementioned pal who dealt with "angry men" as part of the job (think they all were) said that the technique they taught was to try to slow down people's reaction - for most a few seconds is all it takes to get yourself back in control.

It seems the people (like today's video nasty) have longer than that.  So maybe they're in the "bad" category.  In which case even giving them a polite shake of the head might push them over the edge.

Last think is - I don't run a camera.  I don't often react to people.  I didn't in e.g. the case where people in a car threw some cans at me or where they suddenly overtook then swerved in at me while shouting stuff.  I couldn't react - because they initiated the "rage".  But maybe they saw into the future and read this very post I'm now typing?

I'll shake my head but I won't instigate a fight. I'll just aim to get away from the driver as soon as possible. I'll just send the footage to the police and let them deal with it after. In that clip, I would of held back, that driver was too aggressive to go along side. He had enough footage to report them. 

The problem I have is people who go out looking for a fight, makes it harder for the rest of us I personally think. 

There are clearly people who cannot control themselves.  If they're in a car that's a  huge force multiplier.

Thankfully I believe their numbers are small - compared to the total number of people in cars.

The point you seem to be making is because of the angry people, no-one (outside of another car?  Plenty of drivers run dashcams and upload the footage) should ever directly challenge a driver.  Because that might cause them to lose their shit and kill you then, or will make their barely controlled anger boil over at a later time.  And that's kind of your own fault.

So people should stop doing something legal (but only on bikes?) because the angry psychos.  Do I have you right?

Further, something about having the footage out there spreads division, two tribes, why can't we all get along... I'll skip that because it's late.

My point was that me just riding on the road, perfectly legally and reasonably (take it or not, I don't run a camera) has been enough to cause other people to "instigate a fight".  (Assault me - but the end is in sight so moving on). Which like yourself I didn't take up.  When I hadn't noticed them or couldn't even see them before that.

People here have posted accounts of drivers being triggered by them shaking their heads at them or something similar.

Given that a few people are clearly triggered by anything - including just seeing someone on a bike - I'd suggest that the problem is not someone telling drivers they're wrong.  When most drivers are not psychos - or are you saying they are?

Additionally - how do you propose removing these out-of-control (by your own description) psychos from the road?  Always up for learning something new.

I prefer to avoid conflict on the roads, I commute through a city with very little conflicts. I have had bad expierence with a few drivers over time and I have reported drivers. I personally wouldn't wind someone up in a big metal box that could take my life.
I understand you get angry, fair enough but people shouting is not a great way to educate them. Driving Awareness Courses, penalties and court is what I personally think will as it impacts their time and wallet. 
I just record and report when I feel it's neccessary. Driver gets a letter, I forget about it and move on with my life. 
I don't personally don't go a vigilante route as unfortuantely I have other stuff to do in life and I'm not qualified to take on criminals. 

ste.gt13 wrote:

I don't personally don't go a vigilante route as unfortuantely I have other stuff to do in life 

So much other stuff to do that you sign up to websites, go straight in telling everyone that you hate them, and wind up and insult people with a mountain of rambling semi-literate comments. Busy busy! 

Apologies for the hating cyclist comment but when you see a tyraid of abuse towards a guy having a discussion, the comments on here don't particually come off friendly. Am I wrong? 

Your first sentence on here

"I don't hate all cyclists, just the angry depressing people commenting on here."

which you then said I really mean

"I don't hate all cyclists, just the angry depressing people commenting on here."

It very clear who has the issue here.

I apologised but I guess it's not good enough, right? I'm not allowed criticise my own kind. 

Writing "I don't hate all cyclists, just the angry depressing people commenting on here." isn't criticism, it's just a wild accusation unrelated to the comments made by people you are replying to.

ste.gt13 wrote:

Apologies for the hating cyclist comment but when you see a tyraid of abuse towards a guy having a discussion, the comments on here don't particually come off friendly. Am I wrong? 

You've been calling people dumb, stupid, ignorant, negative, angry, depressing...and then you complain people aren't friendly to you. Go figure.

What can I do to make it right? 

Still 1 post, I notice...  Didn't come back to engage, after that little brainfart?

hi 👋

Quote:

Mikey intenially goes out looking for trouble to get views and make money from his channel.

It is amazing how many people think he is doing this for youtube money.
Nope, the only time he gets loads of views is when the Mail /telegraph / scum or other papers decide to do a stupid story about "being a vigilante". Yet you blame Mikey and not the coverage they give for him being the "instigator". People like Parris, Clarkson and Liddle were encouraging hate and attacks on cyclists well before Mikey came on the scene with their *checks notes* jokes about stringing up wire at head height. 

I suspect Mikey has made the roads safer with his work then Ashley ever has with his, especially if the latter has never reported any crime he has seen on them and directed to his students. 

AlsoSomniloquism wrote:

Quote:

Mikey intenially goes out looking for trouble to get views and make money from his channel.

It is amazing how many people think he is doing this for youtube money.

Because in this ultra-right wing society, most people can't concieve of doing the right thing without being paid for it.  Just doing it because it's right went out with the Victorians.

AlsoSomniloquism wrote:

Quote:

Mikey intenially goes out looking for trouble to get views and make money from his channel.

It is amazing how many people think he is doing this for youtube money.
Nope, the only time he gets loads of views is when the Mail /telegraph / scum or other papers decide to do a stupid story about "being a vigilante". Yet you blame Mikey and not the coverage they give for him being the "instigator". People like Parris, Clarkson and Liddle were encouraging hate and attacks on cyclists well before Mikey came on the scene with their *checks notes* jokes about stringing up wire at head height. 

I suspect Mikey has made the roads safer with his work then Ashley ever has with his, especially if the latter has never reported any crime he has seen on them and directed to his students. 

when his learner broke the law by going through a light in amber, at low speed with no one behind, he didn't seem too bothered by it, as it was the cyclists fault for distracting the learner by suddenly appearing.    The cyclist that could be clearly seen for hundreds of metres back.  

In another video he said there is a rsik from being rear ended if you stop, so better to keep going. Doesn't say much about driving standards if you don't think the learner in front will stop for amber.

Another one was driving on the pavement is ok if the obstruction is too near a junction. The idea that you could just get out of the car and push the obstructing car to a safer spot was a step too far.

As a fellow UK Dash Cam viewer, I think you'll remember one where someone braked hard as the lights changed to yellow. Someone then rear ended him and the comments were full of "Safer to keep going etc". Not many were lights were changing so should have stopped if safe to do so and car behind should definitely have been braking and not accelerating as well.

ste.gt13 wrote:

Don't encourage road rage.
Road rage can encourage drivers to use their cars as a weopon and cause harm to you or those around 

"Shut the fuck up and get to the back of the bus, Rosa. You'll only make the white folks hate us even more".

Have a word with yourself, mate.

I just prefer to ride my bike without fighting, it's not hard. 
The anger in these comments blow my mind. 

ste.gt13 wrote:

I just prefer to ride my bike without fighting, it's not hard. 
The anger in these comments blow my mind. 

It must be really confusing for you to join a cycling website, announce that you hate everyone on the site and then for some inexplicable reason, they don't welcome all your stupid comments. That's right, must be because they're all angry and nothing to do with you being a prick.