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TECH NEWS
Pinarello Dogma F10 water bottle downtube recess.PNGCould this be the 2022 Pinarello Dogma F14 Disc? New bike spotted at the Giro
Fausto Pinarello visited Team Ineos on the Giro d’Italia rest day and he was riding what looks to be a new bike. What could be a new Pinarello Dogma F14 Disc features very subtle changes compared to the existing Dogma F12 Disc. We’re also wondering as to whether the Dogma will still be made in the rim-brake form and would that finally spell curtains for rim brakes in the pro peloton?
The new bike was first spotted by BiciSport and they have picked out the main differences between the bike that Fausto is riding and the current Dogma F12.
> Tao Geoghegan Hart’s Giro d’Italia winning Pinarello Dogma F12 and Bolide TT bikes
Firstly, there is a minor change on the down tube just below where the bottle cage sits. On the current model (above), the top of the tube dips before the top of the water bottle and then dips again just below it. On this new model, the tube rises instead of falling at the point underneath the bottle cage.
> Pinarello Dogma F12 and F12 Disk launched - more aero with new integrated handlebar
We saw that Pinarello sought to aero optimise the area around the bottle cage on the down tube of its Dogma F10 so they could be trying to further this with the small change.
The second change that was spotted on this bike comes at the junction on the seat stays and the seat tube. The shape is slightly more angular and the stance is just a little wider. While our first thought was that more marginal aero gains were being searched for by the Pinarello engineers, there is also the possibility that this is a move to accommodate wider tyres.
First launched in May of 2019, the Pinarello Dogma F12 is available in rim brake and disc brake form. With so many 2021 road race bikes switching to being disc brake only platforms, could we see Pinarello going the same way?
> Bike at Bedtime: Filippo Ganna’s Giro d’Italia Pinarello Dogma F12
A move away from rim brakes would mean that the Pinarello-sponsored Ineos Grenadiers would have to switch over to disc brakes. The team is the only World Tour setup that doesn’t yet use disc brakes, so it would certainly be a significant change.
Should the new bike do away with rim brakes, it will have to be buildable to a weight that will still be competitive in the high mountains as Ineos’ switching to Lightweight’s wheels suggests that even the current F12 rim brake bike isn’t the lightest.
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Not quite the same scenario, but has some similarities......
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no one cares enough to fix it...
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I won't be getting anything on Friday...
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It's in the land of the sidewalk, for better or worse, that driving 'right of way' does exist. . . and many other things they can keep as well!
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13 comments
If you can't build a 12k+ bike to a competitive weight then there is very definitively a problem somewhere!!!
Once that's done there is less and less reason to hold on to the humble rim brake...apart from the moaners replying to this 😜😜 ( there are still 100's of rim brake bikes out there, chill people!!!)
I know it's something that doesn't happen that often but a rider can loose a lot more time changing a disk brake wheel than a rim brake wheel.
Errm how exactly? There is one less thing to do which is to flick the rim brake mount qr on or off.
yeah it's a fair point and I don't know why - there are quick release thru axles out there that shouldn't be a problem (and those drill things they use to get the normal axle off in a second)
It's not the time, it's the fact that any time you put a new disc brake wheel in the caliper needs adjusting, riders hate the fact that a puncture could mean having to ride long distances with brake rub. Mechanics hate the extra work too. I've heard that the reason Sky/Ineos can use rim brakes is that they are so rich they can dictate to Pinarello what they want; quite a few other teams would like to use rim brakes but because their manufacturers are pushing discs they're forced to use them.
Is that strictly true? I can swap my disc wheels between two different bikes and they work exactly with no brake rub. Using exactly the same centre lock rotors on exactly the same hubs I don't see how they can be out of alignment.
That's swapping wheels between bikes, a pro with a puncture will be putting a new wheel on. All wheels/discs will be micrometrically different and the levers will be at slightly different tensions, enough to throw out something with the very close clearance of disc brakes.
im sorry that's demonstrably cobblers. If I can get to the stage where I can easily swap 3 different sets of hunt wheels with 3 different set of rotors on 3 different models of hubs across 3 different frame with a mix of qr and thru axles with no rub, a pro team with standardised frames and wheels and hours of mechanics time can achieve the same.
Stop flogging a dead horse.
Goodness me, what a startlingly pointless thing to get cross and be rude about. Is it not possible that other people's experience may genuinely be different to your own? In my experience, every time I swap out disc brake wheels the calipers need a little adjustment to get perfect - more adjustment than would be possible in a five-second swapout in the heat of a tour stage. What you can achieve in your garage on a Sunday morning and what you could achieve in the middle of a screaming crowd halfway up Ventoux with a rider's whole race resting on how quickly you can swap out the wheels may be slightly different. If you think you could manage it perhaps you should apply to be the Ineos chief mechanic, as clearly you know better than the management, mechanics and riders of the current most successful team in world cycling as well as seven-time GT winner Chris Froome, you're obviously wasted here.
A lot of riders, understandably, can't be bothered faffing about with shims and microscopic changes in alignment; so they defer maintenance and tolerate a wee bit of brake rub. (I do too - maybe it added a few seconds to my last training ride, but the aim was to work hard not to win a race).
However, if anyone has the tools and the organisation - and the ability to get a skilled mechanic to do a few more minutes work on each bike - it's a pro team.
In the Good Old Days when everybody rode with rim brakes, there were an awful lot of people who'd tolerate their rims & brakes being slightly misaligned - just a few mm here or there - as long as the bike rolls and stops fairly well. I wish I lived in the alternative world where rim brakes were flawless, but I don't.
You've misunderstood me, I wasn't talking about whether the mechanics could get the brakes perfect in the evening before the race, of course they could. I was talking about whether they could be sure of getting them perfect when swapping out wheels 80kms into a race (when the caliper will have bedded in with the original wheel) with 80kms to go and the answer to that is of course they can't, and that's why Ineos stick with rim brakes. Not saying anything about their use for we lesser mortals, two of my three bikes are disc-braked and I'm perfectly happy with them.
The hydraulic disc brakes on my mtb self adjust very quickly to accomodate different wheels and that was made in 2004! I reckon there's a good chance that the newer, professionally serviced, meticulously prepared, top of the line systems used on pro road race bikes are even better in that regard.
I doubt it's weight related. Most likely to do with the commercial deals between the Team and the Wheel manufacturers. The 'retail' f12 disc is 7.6kg with fulcrum wind 40's - losing 800g from that in Team and rim brake form seems straightforward without resorting to Lightweights.