Chinese Bikes

Nowadays labor is no more cheap in China, if you find something is incredibly cheap, there should be something wrong. Every effort counts, if you really want better quality, you gotta pay more.  -- Voice from a Chinese 

Be aware, anything you import from China worth over £15 could be seized by customs and held until you pay import duty and taxes to the value of the parcel again. That happend to me and I told them to send it back.

http://www.dutycalculator.com/new-import-duty-and-tax-calculation

Have you had any experience with manufacturing contacts in the Far East?

The difference between the Taiwanese, Korean and Chinese mindsets is enormous.

What you pay for when you buy through an established company is quality control and liability. Good luck with buying direct from the manufacturer...

The Chinese will haggle and thrash out the details of a manufacturing contact with you in the room. The moment you leave the room they'll be figuring out ways to cut costs. In shipping, the buyer puts a team in place to oversee the process to try to eliminate this. Koreans, by contrast, will industriously get on with building you exactly what you've agreed by the exact date you've agreed.

Make your decisions yourself. I'd not ride a carbon frame from a company who I couldn't hold liable for any injury through manufacturing defects. Plus, there are some fantastic aluminium frames at a fraction of the cost of carbon and they'll deliver a great ride.

Ethically, I also want to see the industry advance and companies that invest in design and innovation deserve your custom. If you want the industry to revert to a handful of open mould designs with no quality assurance standards, crack on. Likewise, if you only want to buy cut price imports, then the long term effect is we import the lifestyles of the countries we buy from as we watch jobs outsourced. Ethical lecture over.

Why go cut price carbon? It's a mug's game.

Planet-X at least got themselves established by buying chinese open mould frames. Don't know if that's still the case, but it was true even just a few years ago.

I looked at getting a Chinese frame a couple of years ago, there are a few more established factories that sell direct, and communication I had with them was good. Some research I did showed a few people having to return frames for mostly cosmetic problems, but receiving good customer service.

In the end I decided the saving just wasn't worth it when compared to what you can get from the likes of PX. I paid probably an additional £150 to PX for my frame, but decided that was worth it for some peace of mind and assurance on the quality.

Each to their own but I don't think the risk / reward is really worth it

Hi, first post on here. Regarding Chinese carbon frames ect ect . I have built 4 bikes in total now. When building my first I was extremely nervous and thinking about how poor the service and quality of the product could be. However, when a friend (who lives in china however is british) explained to me how it actually works I had no doubts. Basically the big brands work with the asian, Chinese, Thai OEM whoever it will be and they will make there own moulds. The OEM can't use that mould to sell bikes from there own company bedcause of copyrights or watever it is, however the OEM make there own moulds and use the exact same carbon and materials, and its the exact same men/women making the frames. So for the people who are worried about the bike breaking ect , it has just as much chance as a big brand make. That's when warranty comes in, there is a few sites and OEM that give 2 years warranty, the only problem you will have is it might take awhile due to the fact you will have to post the bike to the other side of the world rather then pop down your local bike shop. With the right tools and knowledge you can easily build a bike for around £2000 which has the same performance as a £6000 bike from a shop plus you can add your own custom design ect and its a one off.

I also have experience,I bought a wheelset from a website “diy carbon bike" , total take me 10 days to receive the wheelset , the wheelset has not quality problems,I think I was lucky .

Can I seriously buy a Dogma frame for £320???

Has anyone here bought something like this from this website and received the product as spec'd?

http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Original-design-2013-3K-Pinarello-Carbon-...

This aliexpress is nuts! never seen this before, its practically like buying stuff for free.

Thinking about buying this to bore youtube viewers with my daily commute.

http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Sport-camera-Helmet-Waterproof-Action-Cam...

I'm spending too much of my life looking at what bikes you can get imported from China now. I think it's becoming an addiction.

This simply can not be legit, in anyway shape or form:

http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Giant-xtc-26-fr-2013-777-giant-mountain-b...

If they are only testing 1 in 50, that could be below the standard requirement.
Saying that, that could be for an order of between 151 - 3201 pieces.
Also, if it's 1 in every 50, it's not random, and works against the process of Inspection.

they've sold out. i'm eyeing up one of these for £36 shipped though

http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Luxury-2014-jade-dragon-tricycle-old-age-...

Road.cc any news on when you're getting the " Bicycle road bike disc automobile race bicycle aluminum ring sports car 21" in for review?

road.cc wrote:

Cyclist sues Halfords for £1 million, claims steerer tube "failure" led to severe facial injuries

A cyclist left disfigured when the steerer tube of a bike he had bought from Halfords allegedly snapped is suing the retailer for £1 million.

Joseph Love, then aged 19, suffered severe injuries to his face in the incident in Gravesend in February 2009 which he says have “wrecked” his life, reports Metro.

Gerald Martin QC, acting for Mr Love, told the High Court that the steerer tube of Mr Love’s £250 Saracen Raw 2 bike had sustained a “sudden and catastrophic failure,” with the cyclist hitting a crash barrier head-first.

He said: “We ask the court to bear in mind that marketing literature for the Saracen Raw 2 bicycle would lead an ordinary person to assume that fairly robust riding is to be expected – as it says, 'give the trails a kicking'."

Mr Martin claimed the bike was “defective at the point of sale.”

His client, now aged 24, said that the bike had been assembled and inspected by Halfords staff, and that it had also undergone a full service at the retailer with no defect found.

James Medd, acting for Halfords, described expert evidence prepared on behalf of Mr Love as “deeply flawed.”

The retailer also insisted that the cyclist had damaged through adding lights and mudguards [the specifics of why such standard accessories would have caused damage isn’t reported – ed], a claim Mr Martin rejected.

The case continues.

Isn't it interesting that people who are always scare-mongering about so-called "cheap Chinese carbon crap" spontaneously combusting mid-ride, how they always conveniently neglect to bring up the fact that we hear about cheap British crap failing way more often?

road.cc wrote:

Cyclist sues Halfords for £1 million, claims steerer tube "failure" led to severe facial injuries

A cyclist left disfigured when the steerer tube of a bike he had bought from Halfords allegedly snapped is suing the retailer for £1 million.

Joseph Love, then aged 19, suffered severe injuries to his face in the incident in Gravesend in February 2009 which he says have “wrecked” his life, reports Metro.

Gerald Martin QC, acting for Mr Love, told the High Court that the steerer tube of Mr Love’s £250 Saracen Raw 2 bike had sustained a “sudden and catastrophic failure,” with the cyclist hitting a crash barrier head-first.

He said: “We ask the court to bear in mind that marketing literature for the Saracen Raw 2 bicycle would lead an ordinary person to assume that fairly robust riding is to be expected – as it says, 'give the trails a kicking'."

Mr Martin claimed the bike was “defective at the point of sale.”

His client, now aged 24, said that the bike had been assembled and inspected by Halfords staff, and that it had also undergone a full service at the retailer with no defect found.

James Medd, acting for Halfords, described expert evidence prepared on behalf of Mr Love as “deeply flawed.”

The retailer also insisted that the cyclist had damaged through adding lights and mudguards [the specifics of why such standard accessories would have caused damage isn’t reported – ed], a claim Mr Martin rejected.

The case continues.

Isn't it interesting that people who are always scare-mongering about so-called "cheap Chinese carbon crap" spontaneously combusting mid-ride, how they conveniently neglect to bring up the fact that we hear about cheap British crap failing way more often?

I'm sure that's meant to be a cunning critique on using foreign workers to supply goods, but since most of the big bike brands use the same foreign workers to supply their bikes, it doesn't quite hold up.

The R&D is a big cost for the major brands for sure, which the open mould sellers then piggyback on. First massive saving. They use zero marketing beyond their websites and minor social media presence - second massive saving. Their sales and supply chain starts and stops at the factory. Third massive saving.
QA - yes, this is a valid point, and one it is, of course, hard to know the answer to. My frame had a little QC check sticker on, and a signature from a worker on another. One assumes there's some sort of QA going on, even if it's just checking all the holes are in the right place. Whatever, I've not seen anyone who has bought from the bigger Chinese sellers report any frame failures except for in the case of a bad crash - and can you show me any carbon frame that would escape from a bad crash without failing?

The above will be my last comment on this matter. I've just heard that I've been made redundant due to outsourcing and all future vaguely pithy comments from my username will be supplied by someone from China while the original Allez Neg will be learning how best to say "D'you want fries with that?"

Chinese helmet, anyone?

It surely depends hugely on the company though. 'Chinese bikes' is quite a broad catchment - you only have to look at what's on alibaba or aliexpress to see how many different suppliers there are, and how many focus on making fakes, for example.
If you widen your terms to 'Chinese components (not bike related)', and then apply what you've learned back to bikes.... what you're doing here is equivalent to telling me not to buy coffee from my local cafe because you had a bad sausage roll from your local cafe.

What I've learned so far:
Do research. A lot of research. Read forums, take notice of the experiences people have had.
Look at pricing and promises - if it looks too good to be true, then it probably is.
Ask questions of the supplier, the answers you get should be indicative of the level of service you might expect.
Obviously be wary of a lot of things - you're dealing with people on the other side of the world, there's a lot that can go wrong in terms of communication breakdown, confusion, and I guess cultural misunderstandings.
Be very, very skeptical of anyone trying to do an official review of any of these frames. I'm thinking specifically of Velobuild, because from what I understand the person/people who run that moderate the forum heavily, have special deals with certain suppliers and it's in their interest to aggressively promote the frames which they make the most money from.
More generally speaking, I'm not sure there'll be many people buying these frames who also ride top end branded frames - so it's really hard to get reliable comparisons. You won't ever get sites like Road.cc, bikerader, cyclingnews etc reviewing them partly because their revenue comes from the major brands, and mostly because the supply of Chinese bikes isn't particularly relevant to the sites' readers; it's just too niche.

Anyway, this is a work in progress. Keep your eyes peeled for updates.

My own company ( not cycle related) uses some Chinese components, our experience is that even the samples at times are completely useless - to the point of a waste of perfectly good material -

Even the stuff that passes our rigorous QC QA can fail massively in the next seemingly identical batch dispatched.

In fact, by the time duty is paid, it's becoming more viable to buy from warranted and certified EU sources, with reliable quality and shorter lead times.

I really wouldn't discount the cost of QA and QC testing and inspection the big manufacturers put into this, it could easily double the cost of a generic frame.

Unless I had a mate down at the X ray department at the local hospital, I'm not sure I would ever fully trust an unknown source carbon frame, however if you know what you're doing and what to keep looking for, I don't see that there is anything wrong with the approach in general.

I'm liking the new advert for the VW Golf.

Can't quite put my finger on why it springs to mind here.......

Thank you, Velonista, for typing what I was about to.
Of course I was wary of buying direct; I was worried about quality control, communication and service. Happy with all three - and extremely happy with the product thus far. Proof is in the riding of course, but that's to come.
Did the internal cable routing today, and despite reading up on it and learning that it would be nigh on impossible to do without major hair loss, I did it quite quickly. So from that, I'm going to conclude it's a well designed and well thought out frame.
Or it's a cunning plot by those naughty Chinese people to lure me into thinking it's a good frame.

Almost all carbon frames are made in China/ Taiwan these days. Apparently Thailand is starting to beocome another manufacturing source.

By almost all I mean NOT high-end Treks, Colnago C59/60, Time, Look, Calfee, Guru, Seven, IF, Formighli, Passoni, and other custom builds. Everything else, including Specialized, Pinarello, Canyon, Wilier, in fact every pro-tour team supplier, is Asian based.

Pinarello, for example, order [N x 100's] number of raw frames at $300 a pop. They respray and finish the bike in Italy and charge $3,200 for it. Because the Chinese component is less than 10% of the value of the total product, legally they can say it is made in Italy.

There is an element of QC and guaranteed warranty associated with buying your Pinarello from the italians as opposed to from the Chinese. That said, the breakage rates of all carbon frames appears similar. It could be argued the lay-up of the Chinese versions is not correct so the genuine article is better, but I know a local Pinarello dealer who swears that most Pinerello copies are in fact the genuine article, just taken to a local paint shop to get finished.