A wet sportive...

Al__S wrote:

"slow down" called the marshals. "I would if I had diskbrakes" was my thought as I plowed through magically missing any submerged obstacles.

My favourite was the guy on the inside of a right-hand bend who called out "Puddle!" referring to a 30-foot wide pool of water.

That bridge was funny - people walking along the footpath and those of us who were brave (/stupid) just fording through.

Martyn_K wrote:

As a footnote i still find it very funny to see the macho ego's trying to resist taking a battering when they see my missus cruising past them (and another female in our team). The girls commented on the amount of guys that tried to force them off the teams wheels or pushed on in a huff only to blow a lung about a 1/4 of a mile down the road.

I like this lots.

bashthebox wrote:

I'm not really sure how they could get the waves better - I think my estimate was pretty dead-on, and a decent group formed up fairly quickly from a lot of my wave.
Maybe they just need to be more insistent about the importance of estimating your time correctly - but unless you've ridden the terrain before, how are you to know?
I kind of like your idea about putting Cat riders in together, but I've got no racing licence and came in the top 400 fastest times, so that wouldn't quite be fair on me.
I guess in the end the road sorts everyone out.

I accept it wouldn't be easy and I understand the issues with estimating but their must be a way to guestimate it with a bit more accuracy than was on show. A guide for riders to workout a time should be achievable with a bit of maths and modelling.

If you've ridden 100miles before then you'll have a much better idea if your time. The problem, such as it was, was that people had clearly but random times without no real idea of how long it would take.

If I get in next year I'll just whack down 4hrs to ensure an early start and empty roads.

step-hent wrote:

The water wasn't nearly as much a problem as the standard of riding - lots of the 'everyone else can go f* themselves' attitude

Unfortunately something that seems increasingly common across all levels of sportive-type events, from this, to something like the SkyRide.

A simple lack of common courtesy for others on the road, and it does work both ways - people trying to go inappropriately fast, or groups spread across the entire road pootling round at a crawl paying no attention to their surroundings/swerving across the road in front of others without even a brief glance over the shoulder.

glynr36 wrote:

The problem with sportives is a huge majority treat them like a race, and therefore ride like dicks, as thats what they think is needed.
The fact that I saw on twitter RL allegedly had a podium sums it all up, and many cynical tweets with a 'finish line' shot of a sprint titled, 'number one sportive-ist' too.
The sooner people treat a sportive for what it is, which is a bike ride with a few thousand other people where someone else has planned your ride, signed it all for you, and provided feeds so you don't need to worry about anything but riding the route the better.

And to be absolutely fair whilst the organisers state that they are not a race (for legal reasons) They don't stop people racing. They encourage it.

Very different to a club run.

Ride London aside I am in two minds about sportives. It's great that people want to be out on their bikes and people do like the sportive format. On the other hand its a "for profit" cycle event the proponderence of which in Surrey has got the council speaking of regulating all such events including the trad club run. It would probably be better if people joined their local cycling club and the money used to organise rides that way and then at least the money would stay in the sport not get siphoned off by carpetbaggers that may or may not be involved in the sport but are involved in making a profit.

glynr36 wrote:

They're races for people too scared to enter a proper race.
Not everyone goes to a sportive to race, and that's why people racing at then are bellends.

Utter bolloxs. Not everyone goes to a sportive to potter along at the speed of the fat lad who rarely rides.

bikeboy76 wrote:

Thank you Matt Eaton for saying what I have always though. Sportives ARE races, they are a mass time trial event open to the public, there are always going to be people trying to go as fast as possible including me. This is what is so attractive about closed road events. I am sick of hearing this 'its not a race' rubbish. True you don't need to be a Dick (channeling Adam Hills) but people will be going fast.

I am 37 years old, I weight 90kg and my hip bone is two inches lower than other guys my height; I have spent a large part of my life playing tennis and white water kayaking; I will NEVER be as fast or naturally talented at cycling as I want to be, or you might be. This Cat 4, 'find yourself a race' bollocks is bollocks.* Not everyone can take part in even the lowest level of competitive cycling.
Sportives are there to cater to exactly the type of knobs/people you are complaining about. There are tens of thousands of keen amateur cyclists looking for an occasional challenge who can only do a couple of events a year because they are real people with jobs and families and lives to live. I have not enough time to cycle as I want because I have to live the rest of my life and I don't have the time or money or equipment or fitness or time or money to pretend that I am some semi-pro. So I do these things a couple of times a year and moan on the internet about how I want to be better and will overshoes help or not because I know I have very little talent but try my best.

My definition of going my fastest 5 hours for Sunday could well be slower than someone capable cruising around in 4; if Lee Dixon cut me up I might be fuming whilst he wonders what I am complaining about because he is not exerting himself. The only grounds for complaint you have is with the organisers for not being more rigourous in their start waves; but how can they be with 20,000+ to start, most or which wouldn't mind a slot as early as possible.

In summary SPORTIVES ARE RACES. If you have paid to enter a timed event from point A to point B and you don't think you are in a race, you have made a mistake. If you want to blow hard Glynr36 please post your Cat4 results.

*Swearing; if its good enough for Stephen Fry, its good enough for you. - Me.

Well said! I hate the elitist attitude among many racers (and club riders) that you aren't a real cyclist if you don't compete in the evening TT down the bypass or zoom along the lanes in your peleton all in the same jersey every Sunday.
I pushed myself on RideLondon, really pleased with the time I got. Was I racing? Not sure, I wasn't racing any particular person, but I wasn't bimbling along either and was very conscious of my time/progress. I'd love to spend £5k on a bike and spend all week riding it, but I don't have the time or the money.

andyp wrote:

'There are people at every sportive who want to get the best time and 'win' the sportive. '

yes, they're known as 'dicks'.

I'm not sure that I'd go quite that far. Riders who take silly risks and ride over-aggresivly are dicks but you'll find people like that at races too. It's a case of taking things more seriously than the level of competition merits.

There are good things about sportives but there are a couple of negatives. They seem to have replaced organised charity rides, where the challenge is just to complete the course rather than put in a good time. This has led to non-competitive riders being given little option than to join the sportive scene. They also seem to have taken the place of certain grass-roots racing, especially for those coming to the sport as grown-ups. Maybe there should be a cat. 5 to cater for such riders. Equally, if all of the sportive riders who claim to be too slow for a cat. 4 race actually entered they'd find that they had a good number of other riders to compete with of similar ability. The presence of the sportive scene means that British Cycling don't have to worry about catering for such riders. On the other hand we could say that wannabe racers should just get on with it and ride their local TT or find a form of racing that's more inclusive, like CX or even an MTB disipline.

Your comment is contradictory at best, somemones' best possible time has to "win" the event...?

There does seem to be a lot of vitriolic statements coming from certain quarters, but it's just not necessary. Sportive rides have a mixed bag of abilities, this one even more so because of the roads being closed and the popularity of the event.
What you don't seem to understand is that everyone in this event is competing against the clock and, ergo, there will be a leaderboard of sorts.

It's up to the individual how much he wants to put into it to determine his time and place on that leaderboard, thankfully your ranting won't make a blind bit of difference to anything.

Allow me to put it into simpler terms for you.

Your comment reads like this.. You're not a dick for trying in a safe manner to achieve your best possible time, but you are a dick for trying to win a non competitive event.

So what I'm saying to you is, what happens if your best time wins the event? Are you a dick or not?

"Not everyone is competing against the clock"

Well they kind of are Andy, everyone in that event was timed, whether they care about it or not, they were still timed. They were all competing against the clock but of course the level of competitiveness will vary.

"Even if they are, it's not a race"

I didn't say it was. I know it isn't a race.

However people treat these things is cool with me, if you want to take it slow.. fine, if you want to try and be the quickest... no problem. I'm not into marginalising or name calling.

andyp wrote:

You need to get yourself in an earlier start pen, and stay clear of the work broom wagon (HR).

I've already been in for a race strategy meeting with them after I smashed one of the IT lads in the face with a water bottle I was throwing away after drinking it.

This company simply isn't providing the lead out train my talents deserve.

andyp wrote:

'At most mass-participation running races (like marathons) you will see people in silly costumes and often ramblers, who intend only to walk the course. These folks don't have any intention of winning; they may not care whatsoever about their finishing time. Nonetheless they are participating in a race.'

Indeed. The clue is in the name. 'mass-participation running race'. That'll be a race. Not a sportive.

That's the point. Sportives aren't labbelled as races to avoid the legal implications and interferance from governing bodies but in every other respect they are races. Saying that it's not a race because it doesn't have the word 'race' in it's title is rather naive.

Anyway, I'm off out to buy a new bum support, stop sticks and road grippers as you now need a licence to own saddles, brake levers and tyres.

deblemund wrote:

Why's everyone getting so cross? Chill out and go for a bike ride or something!

On other threads we all seem to very critical of the idiots in cars that think they are on a race track when they are just on their way to work. Their objective is to win, to not be overtaken, to get past obstructions as fast as they can. The fact that they think they are in a race all the time even when mostly everyone else is just travelling makes them a menace. They are bad drivers psychologically unsuited to driving. I expect if they were taking the bus or the train they'd be shoving in the queue and treating other passengers as competitors pushing their way past more polite people on their way to win the race to an aisle seat. Just because they are on a bike doesn't make them less of an annoying juvenile w**ker. I dare say some of the other people on the bus or train likewise think that if these areseholes are so keen on pushing and shoving to win something why don't they join a Rugby club. I expect it's the same problem. They like to push and shove to win when nobody else thinks its a rugger match but they're careful to avoid being on a real rugby field with real rugby players.

Since I am very critical of drivers that think the road is their racetrack, likewise I am critical of fellow cyclists that think a charity bike ride is the one day classic.

oozaveared wrote:

glynr36 wrote:

The problem with sportives is a huge majority treat them like a race, and therefore ride like dicks, as thats what they think is needed.
The fact that I saw on twitter RL allegedly had a podium sums it all up, and many cynical tweets with a 'finish line' shot of a sprint titled, 'number one sportive-ist' too.
The sooner people treat a sportive for what it is, which is a bike ride with a few thousand other people where someone else has planned your ride, signed it all for you, and provided feeds so you don't need to worry about anything but riding the route the better.

And to be absolutely fair whilst the organisers state that they are not a race (for legal reasons) They don't stop people racing. They encourage it.

Very different to a club run.

Ride London aside I am in two minds about sportives. It's great that people want to be out on their bikes and people do like the sportive format. On the other hand its a "for profit" cycle event the proponderence of which in Surrey has got the council speaking of regulating all such events including the trad club run. It would probably be better if people joined their local cycling club and the money used to organise rides that way and then at least the money would stay in the sport not get siphoned off by carpetbaggers that may or may not be involved in the sport but are involved in making a profit.

Let's not beat around the bush, sportives are races. There are people at every sportive who want to get the best time and 'win' the sportive. In the origonal Gran Fondo format prizes were even given. Sportive organisers carefully avoid race status, but folks are definately racing. Just like marathon running a lot of people do it as a personal challenge and don't really consider themselves as racers, but its still a race.

As far as the merits of sportives go, my view has softened a little. Having someone mark out a nice route and provide food and drink at suitable intervals along the way is probably worth £20.

I think that any local authority trying to regulate club runs is going to get into difficulty so I wouldn't worry too much about that. After all its just a bunch of friends that have decided to go for a bike ride together; perhaps a regular occurance but not an organised 'event'. Unless they outlaw cycling altogether I don't see how they can stop people going for bike rides.