Giving up with pro cycling, maybe

AJ101 wrote:

tl;dr; - for the duration of the final alpine climb of the day

...then 6.5W/kg is probably pushing it to say the least, suspicious coming back from illness or not if over 30 mins

stumps wrote:

The Aru weight loss is not a big thing, you just have to look at Cav with his regular weight loss.
In 9 days i lost 7kg after coming back from Kenya with a stomach bug so why cant someone else lose a similar amount of weight.

They can, but they wouldn't retain power.

AJ101 wrote:

stumps wrote:

The Aru weight loss is not a big thing, you just have to look at Cav with his regular weight loss.
In 9 days i lost 7kg after coming back from Kenya with a stomach bug so why cant someone else lose a similar amount of weight.

They can, but they wouldn't retain power.

Indeed, and that's what happens when riders drop weight for, e.g. climbing in the grand tours. It's a balance between the absolute power you lose and the power-to-weight you gain - and they're never going to match a stand-alone TT performance
with one during the Giro for example. Riders know that, acknowledge that but it's often not what will win the tour.

stumps wrote:

The Aru weight loss is not a big thing, you just have to look at Cav with his regular weight loss.
In 9 days i lost 7kg after coming back from Kenya with a stomach bug so why cant someone else lose a similar amount of weight.

And still put out 6.5 w/kg?

Ok.

Chasseur Patate wrote:

stumps wrote:

The Aru weight loss is not a big thing, you just have to look at Cav with his regular weight loss.
In 9 days i lost 7kg after coming back from Kenya with a stomach bug so why cant someone else lose a similar amount of weight.

And still put out 6.5 w/kg?

Ok.

For how long ? Even I can put out 6.5W/kg for a time - it's just that that time is rather short...

bashthebox wrote:

If Kittel was doping he'd be able to get up hills without looking like a sunday rider. He's also an extremely outspoken advocate for clean cycling. I'm giving him a very wide pass; he's fast in the finish but absolutely nothing about the way he rides suggests doping.

Absolutely mate, the blood irradiation treatment he was doing back in 2006ish wasn't illegal then, so he was in the clear. He is totally 100% trustable rider.

pants wrote:

When the last Astana scandal broke out I said to myself I will no longer follow pro cycling if the team can carry on riding, and now here they are. Fuck it, everyone should just go out for rides and watch old videos of Eddy Merckx.

Agreed. Speaking of which, saw A Sunday in Hell for the first time the other day:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zxBTVU9JDrA

Colin Peyresourde wrote:

I agree with Chasseur Patate: I believe doping is part of every sport, I don't believe a team is cleaner than another

I think you'd find most people agreeing that there is doping going in pretty much every sport at some level - but that last bit just doesn't make sense to me... you seem to be saying that all teams are doping and doing so at the same level. Do you see no possible issue with that sort of judgement - even ignoring evidence (or the lack of) and logic, does it not seem odd to you from a statistical point of view ?

fukawitribe wrote:

Colin Peyresourde wrote:

I agree with Chasseur Patate: I believe doping is part of every sport, I don't believe a team is cleaner than another

I think you'd find most people agreeing that there is doping going in pretty much every sport at some level - but that last bit just doesn't make sense to me... you seem to be saying that all teams are doping and doing so at the same level. Do you see no possible issue with that sort of judgement - even ignoring evidence (or the lack of) and logic, does it not seem odd to you from a statistical point of view ?

Nope. I'm not saying that they are doping equally efficiently. I'm saying that they are all in an arms race and that they all pick up the weapons of war. If you read my comment again. You'll see I then talk about the role of money.

I could qualify things further. But this is a comments page. Not an essay page.

Colin Peyresourde wrote:

fukawitribe wrote:

Colin Peyresourde wrote:

I agree with Chasseur Patate: I believe doping is part of every sport, I don't believe a team is cleaner than another

I think you'd find most people agreeing that there is doping going in pretty much every sport at some level - but that last bit just doesn't make sense to me... you seem to be saying that all teams are doping and doing so at the same level. Do you see no possible issue with that sort of judgement - even ignoring evidence (or the lack of) and logic, does it not seem odd to you from a statistical point of view ?

Nope. I'm not saying that they are doping equally efficiently.

Indeed i'm not assuming the same efficiency but it would seem to involve a such a huge difference in it that the odds of it being a viable hypothesis are dropping markedly.

Colin Peyresourde wrote:

I'm saying that they are all in an arms race and that they all pick up the weapons of war. If you read my comment again. You'll see I then talk about the role of money.

Of course they're in an arms race, and there is a huge amount of money in many sports (not much, all things considered, in pro-cycling at the team level) - but without any realistic evidence for the effects of all this cash it makes you wonder whether there is something more nuanced going one... and this is also disregarding the fact that, even considering that pharmaceutical application will always lead detection, the physical performance of the riders doesn't seem to track the budgets. I'm sure there is a significant amount of doping still going on in the pro-peloton but I don't have the absolute conviction that every team is knowingly and systemically doing it that you have - and you don't seem to have any compelling evidence to suggest you're correct.

Colin Peyresourde wrote:

I could qualify things further. But this is a comments page. Not an essay page.

I'm all ears...

Colin Peyresourde wrote:

Pandora's box is open and no man can close it.

I agree with Chasseur Patate: I believe doping is part of every sport, I don't believe a team is cleaner than another, in fact the more a team/rider wins it probably makes it clear he does. In some ways Armstrong is right, that doping makes it a level playing field...of sorts. There is still competition because at the apex of the arms race testing is helping give parity. But like all sports, money buys winners - money buys guarantees and it does that by buying the insurance of medication which is a shame. Money, as anyone who follows the Premiership spoils competition.

I can still enjoy the races. But the things I enjoy the most are the unpredictable, the chaos thrown into the system - E3 this year will remain with me for a long time, and Omloop.

This remind me of Football Gambling in China. Money plays.

ianrobo wrote:

the aforementioned Kittel has abandoned in Yorkshire, presume the 'virus' eh ?

Surely if he was using the virus as a cover for missing the race to avoid a "glow" period being detected, it would be pretty pointless to actually go and attempt the race?

The testers would be able to take a sample when he gets back to the team bus.

ianrobo wrote:

the aforementioned Kittel has abandoned in Yorkshire, presume the 'virus' eh ?

Clutching at straws with Kittel there to be honest. Other than being extremely quick (which isn't a crime btw) there are no alarm bells ringing with him for me. He was reported as looking quite ill at the start today.