the biking social class

"Smiling. I go to a church of foreign language because it's easier to see the music in the words."

Boatsie.

Boatsie, with your permission, but someone should create a collection of your postings. I don't "get" art, but I do like a Banksy. You Sir are a Banksy of the written word.

It's so hard to judge friends let alone strangers bro.
My good mate changed my habits.. Somehow.. He's a chubby chap, yet being into kayaking (same core routine as cycling, kick with the legs like a solid push on a pedal while blade oar hand firm holds on the grasp of touch) came up with a 1963 kayak.. It is so old yet painted in Australian livery, fairly light, wide and loving of waves.. They go around the $400 down here.. It's marvelous. Changed my perception of a solid water bike. I ordered and paid a new kayak, $5540.. That was a complete loss. Paid but never made (not delivered is what I know).
My mate lost his license, needed a work option, I suggested cycling, his brother in-law? Uncle? Anyway, someone was an Olympic cyclist and during that time used to commute to work on the bicycle via the long route.. Adelaide to Murray Bridge googles @75km on a bicycle. Hence 150km instead of idk 5? 6? km.
He already knew he had that option..
Where as another mate at work has cyclist quad muscle legs.. My eyes opened.. You spent what? Di2 something, huh? Eyes opened even further when price of other bikes was mentioned..
Another mates brother just spent $20000 on a road bike.
Trips me out too man. Not the cost although suchlike is beyond the budget of a labourer such as me.. But Dude, they may as well weigh nothing.
The kayak weighs some but not much, not fancy modern fabrics; fibre glass. Yet light enough and designed to get up on plane.

I agree with you too alansmurphy.
Boy racers have passion, although grow out of it I disagree with, more like grow up with that desire to remain alert.
Lots of people look worn by our governments, by me, by others, just driving home, just driving to the shop, just awake. Maybe in a hurry rather than a race.
Last night with lightpole obstructing lane.. 5? 6? Cars at peak of hill in middle of highway (a really easy silhouette) and a bright torch double tapping the attraction of their eyes at 500metres then placed to illuminate upon pole end.. Plenty nearly hit that. At speed. My mind was racing, if hit does occur, it'll force, fulcrum should lay along lie, hence that bit will come back at me, I'll lose a bike, whoop, but I'll stand like this just in case I need that jump. Landing grass.
Chase cars were worse.. Closer. Lead car maybe new of sight site and risked puncture, debris damage but chase cars so far up their behind very much enjoyed the use of their reaction.
The crash car slid uphill.. That to me is amazing

You guys rock..
My old man taught me to know what I'm using which is why I rebuilt my bike.
Today I bought a $100 25 year old bike because it's quality. The frame just shy of my preferred length yet I can't stop laughing. It's way lighter than the lightish bike I tried to build yet ii don't care.. Wide tyres staying on my build. I know 28s rarely puncture especially during summer on smooth roads and I know I'm faster on wider tyres through the back tracks such as gravel and bumpy river paths..

Bugatti Veyron.. I preferred the Ferrari.. I was tripped out. I met a musician in Odessa, Ukraine. He asked me why I hung around him everyday because I was a tourist. I told him straight up, ' far off can't, ' sniffed a couple of loud snorts, ' you reak of education and besides, my idea of a holiday is to sit here and do nothing. '
He's a nuclear engineer! I was amazed. I made many friends. Humble people. Wealthy with art. With a tertiary education, high wages were near $100 USD a month yet parked on the street below the window of my apartment was a Bugatti Veyron, Italian paint scheme Ferrari and lots of Porsches.
Like mentioned, regardless of wage, enjoyment was the basic education; enjoying life.
Cycling is a warm body, a cold face and nervous system that makes many smile.
1986. Chernobyl nuclear disaster; bigger than the Hiroshima bomb, a nuclear cloud covered much of Europe including more than 1 humble little village in Wales. The city near the power station is a place I'd like to be. Moose, deer, wolves, bears, dogs, cats, insects, birds, definition of pale rings enveloping darker wood telling a tale of time.
Granddad RSM WO1 D. James past away soon after cloud with cancer dominating throat.

1922? Noble prize was awarded to a skillful doctor whom I think wrote pedanticly wrong yet jist is there.
Cancer doesn't survive in non acidic blood and does like oxygenated blood.
I don't argue because he's true in layman's terms but I think Cancer a god.
Hence god being a good. Therefore helpful yet not detected using our technologies nor any of the future and loving the good of life such as cycling demands from a body. Oxygen from breath and water.
Cabbage and vinegar were ancient medicines to feel good rather than punished.

Honestly, as rare as the readers educated ability to translate.
Binned plastics go to landfill and/or ocean dumps. Recycled plastics are the best options I have to hope a less irritated man of lands I pass through.
Smiling. I go to a church of foreign language because it's easier to see the music in the words.. Not sure what father says.. I just smile, stretch the wrists and look forward to practice of dance.

At the end of the day, it's not what you're riding, it's the fact that you're out riding it.

What puzzles me is the connection between expensive bikes and athletic prowess. Some cyclists take the view that you should "earn" the right to have an expensive/lightweight/aero bike by racing or by having some arbitary level of performance. You don't tend to get this with expensive cars (i.e. you don't expect a Porsche driver to be an ex-racer) so why with bikes?

I find this very comforting:

 I own some very nice, expensive bikes and spend lots of money on kit, but I wouldn’t dream of taking the piss out of anyone else’s bike or kit choice based on how much it costs. One of my mates rides a tatty Allez on which he commutes and rides for leisure with. Some of his cycling jerseys are getting mis-shapen at the hem they are so old! So what? He’s as strong as an ox and can leave me up the hills. We just ride and enjoy ourselves.

Cycling continually pushes you to adjust your thinking; Kids on cheap bikes can rip the legs off a MAMIL like myself on  my realtively (2k) expensive bike. I know, I used to be that kid. I rode shit bikes for decades while I was  student and then a strugling artist. I can now afford and economically justify a couple of decent bikes (justifcation is £8 a day on tube x 200 times a year). In many ways I am underbiked and my Audax exploits would justify a much more expensive (ti) bike but I am committed to wearing out the bikes I have for the time being.

I have struggled in the past with bike wankers but have calmed down a bit in the last few years - really if someone wants to buy a dream Colnago that's their business - cycling has a way of evening that all out when the road points up or gets long anway. Age and training are way more important to performance than the bike you ride.

It's easy to find a reason not to like people but everyone on a bike has a lot more in common than they have differences, I look to the communalities.

My judgement of riders these days has nothing to do with the bike and clothes, it's simply whether they wave or not. Simples.

As for PP's last para on motorists - perfect, 100% agreement.

There's so many points raised here, a few of note to me are bike geeks:

I consider the level of knowledge isn't so much about the tech but the mechanic, a bike geek to me is the one that can change a set of forks, looks at crank length, has built a bike from scratch etc. Tech can be informative, fun, give a slight advantage and often people on a journey (wanting to TT) will obsess over tech, it doesn't mean they're the most knowledgable.

£3k bikes:

Ok so there are the 'all the gear no idea' bunch, or people paying thrice as much for a carbon fibre bottle cage to save the odd gram when they're 4 stone overweight. But... maybe just maybe they are enjoying themselves, it's got them out of a sports car or golf club. They may have just liked the look of the bike and can afford it - leave them to it.

Chav boy racers:

I don't mind these too much, they'll grow out of it. It's what the majority of drivers grow into which bothers me most. They see traffic holding them up rather than being a part of the traffic, they see us as an inconvenience, they feel they have rights greater than others, they are protected in their bubbles, they don't realise that they're even doing anything wrong. Any age, culture, race, income, gender... there's millions of inconsiderate motorists, I don't need to check their demographic profile! 

Pilot Pete, another fine, long and very well made comment.  I thank you.

I wonder if RedRobot will ever read it.

Regarding redrobot’s first paragraph, yes there are bike geeks and those who understand little about the machine they ride other than it’s a pretty colour. So what? It’s only a heriechy if you choose to view it that way - I’ve got a big bunch of mates who all ride, some like me knock out 100 mile rides regularly as it is my passion. Others don’t do that in a week. So what? We all get on great and the stronger riders in the group never put themselves on any kind of pedestal and happily muck in helping the less technical/ less geeky ones with mechanical knowledge, advice and help. For example I recently leant my bike box to a mate who was going on a cycling trip, have shown another how to use ridewithgps as he was struggling to get routes on his new Garmin and indexed the gears on another mates bike as he had made a hash of it himself. So there is a heriechy in terms of ability, knowledge, kit, tools and a whole host of other things, but it doesn’t get in the way of us just being mates.

Similarly, there is an economic heriechy, just as there is in all aspects of life. Unless someone tries to be elitist and is disparaging of those who spend less, then once again, what is the problem? I own some very nice, expensive bikes and spend lots of money on kit, but I wouldn’t dream of taking the piss out of anyone else’s bike or kit choice based on how much it costs. One of my mates rides a tatty Allez on which he commutes and rides for leisure with. Some of his cycling jerseys are getting mis-shapen at the hem they are so old! So what? He’s as strong as an ox and can leave me up the hills. We just ride and enjoy ourselves.

So it sounds to me like jealousy from someone who covets more expensive bikes and kit - I’ve honestly never come across a cyclist who has been elitist based on how much his bike/ kit cost because cycling is a great leveller - the guy with the most expensive kit can easily be left in the wake of someone who is stronger, no matter how cheap their kit is. 

As others have said, life is not equal. Some live on minimum wage, some earn a fortune. There are many reasons for both. How an individual spends their disposable income is up to them. Many own (rent) flash cars, must have the latest mobile phone, the biggest surround sound home cinema setup, jet skis, second properties, gadget after gadget. Others just spend it on bikes and cycling. 

That brings us onto the second paragraph. I agree there is definitely hostility towards cyclists, based on a number of factors, but a class war? Not sure I completely agree with that. Sure there are the odd drivers who really think you ride a bike because you can’t afford a car, which is laughable, but the majority who demonstrate hostility seem to do it out of some ill perceived belief that they have more rights on the road because they are in the majority of car drivers. They feel they should be able to drive at whatever speed they choose to and should not have to slow down due to the hazard ahead that is the slower moving cyclist. They therefore believe that cyclists ‘hold them up’ and feel they should get out of the way because of this ill perceived belief of greater entitlement.

This manifests itself with the usual ‘road tax’ argument, followed closely by the ‘insurance’ and then ‘registration’ arguments and if you engage for long enough the anecdotal cyclist law breaker stories that they ‘once experienced’ but refer to as ‘all cyclists’.

Only last week I attended a British Legion and veteran’s dinner hosted by a local restauranteur on behalf of my outgoing Mayor wife. We are both ex military and I was sat next to a now retired WO2 in the infantry, something else we both had in common. The talk got around to the recent local elections and how he had voted for my wife, then onto what she was planning to do over the next term. She is now Cycling and Walking Champion for our county council and is pushing active travel and healthy lifestyles, looking to put more cycling infrastructure (of decent quality) in all our towns to encourage the uptake of cycling and to allow kids to ride to school etc. Then said WO2 made a throw away comment about cyclists not using the paths that were already there. I didn’t hold back and just slapped him down as he came out with cliche after cliche regarding cyclists and his obvious hatred. We covered ‘road tax’, passing too close (he said a metre was fine, so I asked if he would overtake another car at 50mph with only a metre between them). We discovered he had no idea about the Highway Code and the rules regarding cycling two abreast and I pointed out why and when riders would ride as such and when they would single out. He couldn’t argue against any of it. Give him his due, he gave me and my wife a lift into town, we had a few beers and he dropped us home!

So, the point is, it’s not a class war, it’s a deep rooted, incorrect belief regarding perceived entitlement to use the roads. Too many drivers (and I honestly think it is a majority) hold the belief that they have more rights than cyclists and too many of them believe that cyclists shouldn’t be anywhere other than in the gutter and should get out of their way. Too many (although a minority) think they can take the law into their own hands and do their own judge/ jury and executioner routine by punishment passing, brake checking and whatever else they deem suitable to correct the perceived ill that has been done to them. This is not confined to any particular group of road users - boy racers, van drivers, bus drivers, even the old and retired drivers are at it. Even amongst our group of friends many (although not particularly hostile with it) hold these beliefs and casually show their lack of knowledge regarding the law relating to cyclists. Most don’t mention it in front of me any more though!

PP

I've had cheap bikes in the past. We still have a couple in the family fleet. I'm not sure how much I spend on cycling/year, but what with BC membership, club membership and race fees on top of maintenance (plus a new race bike for my son), it'll all add up. 

You can buy a decent bike secondhand for not much money. It doesn't have to cost the earth. 

One thing redrobot missed on his other forum post/rant about the content on road.cc was the amount of bloody squirrels! Little feckers.

I spend my entire salary on cycling, including not eating and living in a tree.

Ballpark figure I spend about 3.5-4 k Euro/year on cycling (bike, gear, clothing, maintenance...) and recover something like 1.6k from that (employer pays 0.23 EUR/km for the commute).  But -not that any justification is required, the cash is mine to spend and I pay the equivalent of a nice Mercedes in taxes every year- I don't own a car.

My neighbour rides a 12k Euro bike but only during the weekends provided the weather is just right (neither too hot nor cold, not too much wind, no rain or -god forbid- snow or sleet).  He spends more time researching the latest Meilenstein wheelset than riding his bike.  I say more power to him and I hope he enjoys his rides, just like I hope that the 22 year old fitness maniac living down the road who can whip my arse on his 400 Euro clunker enjoys his.  

"tearing around" eh, unlike the millions of £20,000 plus motors that tear around the  country killing and maiming.

And the cost of renting a car for 2 or 3 years is ?

"Over £30 billion in new credit was issued by auto finance dealers in 2016 alone"

Just ignore it.

I average out spending around £1000 a year on cycling. Cycles, maintenance, parts, clothing, club membership. Every 10 years or so I buy a really good bicycle. My current bestie stands me at over £6.5k, but I look after them meticulously and each of my bicycles are as good or better as the day they rolled out of the bike shop.

For my £1000 a year I get transport to work, exercise and on Sundays I get to dress like I know what I'm doing, lycra and all. As for technical, well I do understand how to strip and maintain most of the parts that come on my bikes, but my main concern is that they are shiny and in good working order. I couldn't explain the difference between a BB30 bottom bracket and a BB8 astrodroid but I appreciate that there are "geeks" out there who have an encyclopedic knowledge of bicycle stuff and that they are generous enough to share that wisdom for free on internet forums, always happy to help out with any technical question.

Don't get hung up on the cost of clothing. Sticker price isn't what most people pay. I have some nice Castelli stuff, but when it is last year's unfashionable end of line discounted stock and Tesco's are offering 3 for 1 clubcard points for EvansCycles it would be rude not to. For the most part expensive kit is at least partly expensive because it is good unlike a lot of fashion clothing.

Pleased to hear that you are on the road for £45. Many cyclists started out on the cheap. My first proper bike was £5 from the local tip. Now I can afford better and I'm not jealous of those who can afford to spend more. One of the things you will learn is that no matter what you think someone might be like because of what they drive, ride or how they dress, how rich or poor they are, for the most part they will be decent people and as a cyclist you are probably more likely to have someone stop and offer help if you need it. Cycling is one of the most inclusive activities available, it is most certainly not the preserve of the "middle class" even though I am most distressingly the stereotypical one of those at this stage of my life.

Not really because the LBS's main business is ebikes. I had to go much further afield for the Colnago C60. The latest addition, Genesis gravel/tourer was closer to home but the BS owner made such a cockup on the build I wish I had done it all myself. But, in fact, most of the money (75%) did go to two bike shops. Beyond that I do all my shopping on-line and do my own maintenance.

I'm hoping your LBS had a proportion of that?

Bike kit in the broadest sense? Bikes, tools, accessories, clothes - I've just done a quick check - €18450.