Proposal to modify ASL zone - opinions wanted.

The ones I have seen don't give much time. You need to be across the junction to not be venerable. ASL's don't half wind up a lot of car drivers and they race to get past.
I pass one daily. Its has some stupid little lane up the LHS which encourages people to filter rather than wit and then they go straight on, ignoring the left turning cars.
It struck me that these cycle lanes should take a more gradual corner with a sodding great big post between the bike lane and the car lane. A nice right angle for cars etc would slow their turn whereas a more gentle curve would allow cycles to turn faster and easier.
Would solve rights I know but one step at a time.

Turns out ASLs are good for pedestrian safety too. There are stats online, on wikipedia ASL page iirc.

Adding a 10 seconds cycles only phase would add 10seconds to the cycle, not 40. Simultaneous greens from all directions works:look at the Netherlands!

I have always assumed that they are aimed at reducing the number of cyclist by putting them in front of a mass of impatient traffic. Unless cycles have a different set of lights even more mods won't help.
I cannot believe that anyone will filter, cycle lanes excepted up the left of vehicles.
Asking to be killed. Why not wait?

My opinion is that a lot of ASL's are badly designed and my gut reaction is that they create as many dangerous situations as they fix - some well designed ASL's do work and my impression is that these are ones where the entry lane is wide and not always to the left and approaching vehicle speeds are relatively low - narrow feeder cycle lanes are only formalising riding that shouldn't be encouraged - some cyclists seem to insist on the right to filter in queues irrespective of the danger - of course that ignores the real issue which is reducing vehicle volumes and speed - less vehicles = less issues at junctions - lower speed limits in built up areas = less conflict at junctions - trying to deal with continued increases in vehicle volumes, maintaining vehicle flow aka speed and dealing with increased cyclist numbers without changing vehicle use patterns is a no win

My anecdotal experiences with a couple of junctions that have had early green lights recently added for cyclists is that they reinforce bad driver behaviour - after the cycle green light has finished drivers seem to believe that it is "their turn, at their speed" and that cyclists still crossing or wanting to cross with the traffic flow no longer have normal traffic rights

No!! ASL is fundamental for slower cyclists getting away safely, whether going straight, left or right at the junction. It prevents a car moving alongside you when you are moving slowly and therefore least stable. (i.e. clipping in, or a slow unsteady rider getting up to speed).

Personally, I'd say splitting the box into L/S and R halves may help prevent cyclists moving too far across the box and therefore in the way of the traffic behind, but that's not practicable when you consider overflow of cyclists.

Staggered lights aren't ideal either. 10 full seconds at every junction?! Not a chance of that being accepted by other road users. A great idea for busy times at particular junctions (e.g. cycle superhighway routes in London at rush hour), but any other time of day would be stupid and most junctions don't need it. By that point it's so complicated that it's confusing and counter-productive.

I believe ASL's amongst other things were intended to prevent left hooks by putting the cyclist ahead of left turning vehicles.

I would like to see:
1) entry for cyclists at any point, ie cyclists may cross the first stop line to enter the box even when the light is red.
2) no entry to the box for drivers unless your exit is clear - like yellow hatched boxes.
3) enforcement
4) (expensive) move motor vehicle traffic lights back to the first stop line with cycle lights at the front.
[5) low front lorry cabs, like buses, to get rid of the killer blind spot in front that is the same size as the ASZ]

I've recently done a trials session at TRL on junctions with ASLs and cycle traffic lights.

During the session, which consisted of about 30 cyclists plus cars, they modified the phasing of the cycle lights and main traffic lights so that cyclists were not only in front on the ASL but actually got up to 10 seconds head start on the motorised traffic.

Agree with Northstar that a change to the Dutch style road layout would be better but intelligent introduction of cycle traffic lights giving an advantage when moving off over motorised traffic would seem a good reasonable cost interim alternative. The physical structure, electrical supply and control mechanisms are all in place, all that's required is the additional cycle specific lights and changes to the software.

ASLs just encourage poor road behaviour by cyclists desperate to get into them. I don't really like them much and you can still pop into blind spots on HGVs even when you are in front of them (and it is likely that more than few bad accidents have happened that way).

I don't think they really do the job they intended, or improve anything. Would love for someone to pull up the stats that either prove a safety improvement from them or not. But I think they are really a cheap half-way house that looks like they are a help when they are not (e.g. cycle superhighways).

I must say ASL appeared out of nowhere, certainly I never heard of any legislation until I heard about cameras in LDN snapping the encroachers. I'll be honest if the light is Red and im a bit a way ill cruise up the inside and get my prime spot 'center' in the ASL. If other cyclists are there I tend to shadow the one that looks strongest (often get caught out by a rogue MTB rider). On the other hand at junctions where there is no ASL i will stay inline with traffic.

BUT

The bigger challenge I find in Glasgow is buslanes that are interupted by left turns. Motorists pull in early and sit all over a big thick white line, including the boys in blue (check it on youtube in Edinburgh). This poses two problems:

1. where do you position yourself when some are in both lanes, not yet committed to one or other but indicating left. often get the cheeky one who cuts you up to get in.

2. the cheekier ones who see this as an opportunity to double out before the bus lane resumes. Bit stuck if you sit on the white line between them thinking they are going left.

Quote:

Keep them until we can have proper Dutch infrastructure.

You are in for a long wait...

You're starting from the wrong point. You need to work out what will make junctions safer and easier for cyclists, not 'how can we change ASLs'. The poor modification of infrastructure has got us where we are now. Properly designing things and building them completely works better.

Hugging the kerb sounds like the best way to invite a left hook. After a few close calls, I always take the primary on approach to a junction, whether in the ASL or in traffic. It means I control the lane, and anyone wanting to turn left is just going to have to wait until I've cleared the junction. Means I get beeped and shouted at from time to time, but better that than being wiped out.

No. ASLs are often necessary to go STRAIGHT ON safely (e.g. if there is a left turn up ahead), not just for turning right.

Keep them until we can have proper Dutch infrastructure.

r.e. the "MASSED START" for those of us going straight on, it's simple - if I'm on my road bike and feeling strong, i take a position further right than if I'm feeeling weak, on my town bike, towing a trailer!

(though you will sometimes get the occasional idiot who positions far to the right despite having the legs of lets-just-say-not-a-regular-cyclist. This is by no means a reason to get rid of infrastructure which works ok most of the time).

I agree with the sentiment behind your idea. However, its my observation that too few people know how to use them as it is and I suspect the changes you propose wouldn't deal with that.

I'd rather see them completely removed than adapted.

Why not have a row of spikes that come up when the lights are red?

Get rid of them and put in exact same paths they have in the netherlands, problem solved.

No