Waltham Forest Mini Holland road closures spark for and against petitions as opinions polarise

On people upset about their quiet roads becoming a ratrun, I'd say this:

1. Some of these complaints do seem valid - and we warned the council about the potential for funnelling the existing ratrunners into fewer roads before the scheme went in. That said, officers are saying of the three-four roads that residents are really angry about, the initial data is showing at least one is actually quieter than it was before. In effect, people were told "we're eliminating ratrunning" and suddenly they started seeing all the ratrunning. They're looking for it - before it was in the background. That said, we're keen for the council to make sure no one street is way worse than it was before etc. Mainly, we're now waiting on the data - they're tracking car movements through the whole area for the (too short) three week trial.

2. The absolute brilliant upshot, no matter what the outcome of the scheme is, is the debate is over about ratrunning. Loads of people before were like "there are no ratrunners". That ship has absolutely sailed. Boy are there ratrunners - and at times they've been fast, angry and driven onto pavements etc. The hot topic locally now is not do they exist, but how do we deal with them without everything grinding to a halt or the shops all shutting.

3. I'd go even further - the discourse about the main roads and whether or not the trial has impacted them has also pointed out how delicate and fragile the roads network is around there. The Blackwall Tunnel going out one afternoon in Bow totally brought the entire area to a standstill - which was initially blamed on miniHolland. Increasingly people are willing to admit locally the roads can't cope and something has to be done. You're even seeing loads of locals saying "it's not this village scheme that needs doing - it's segregated space on main roads". Of course, I fully expect a massive outcry when the other elements of the Waltham Forest miniHolland bid - yup, lots of segregated space on main roads - kicks in!

On Lea Bridge Road, yeah, well, talk to sodding Hackney. In essence, the rough drawings of the LBR scheme look really good so far and it runs all the way from Whipps X roundabout to... the border with Hackney.

It then ties into Lea Valley and quieter routes through Hackney. But I, for one, don't think that's ideal. I'd like to see segregation run through Hackney too.

The local cycle campaign and officers there see things differently as many of you will know. Hackney is very anti-segregation. As this is a scheme funded for Walthamstow, we get no say. But, yeah - not ideal.

That said, the LBR scheme crosses the QuietWay 38 scheme. So, for commuters into central London, the end of the LBR scheme should allow them to carry on in a good way. If Sustrans and TfL and the boroughs sort out the issues over QW38 and actually knuckle down and turn out a genuinely quiet QuietWay.

Again, we can only fight for the Waltham Forest element of the QW. But we're working with Hackney and Islington and LCC on the rest.

I'm also a Walthamstow resident, but down by St James', where there's already a fair amount of filtered permeability. The locals aren't up in arms about anything, and the sky hasn't fallen in. I quite like some of the complaints. They tend to be "my previously quiet residential street has become a rat run". This is a positive, as it shows where else motor traffic needs restricting.

I'm really interested in the Lea Bridge Road plans, but wonder what will happen when the road hits Hackney...

@PsiMonk - being a local it's nice that *someone* has explained it to me, the council sure didn't bother. The council have slowly been getting better but I hold them in poor regard mostly. Don't start me on education!

I got caught in that traffic on that day and I was very surprised - there was lots of angry motorists wheeling around the neighbourhood.

Still £30m, wow! Lets hope they can make it work. As a cyclist and parent on another rat run road (Howard) I can't wait for it to be calmed.

I suspect that rat run traffic simply never stops to buy anything. Orford rd in particular can only financialy benefit as people realise they can stroll down there.

Looking forward to the changes and seeing more people out on bikes. Maybe they'll get around to talking to me, comuting everyday through the place I can give them a blow by blow on which traffic features are really bad and what actually works!

Funny how the majority of perceived problems still involve motorised traffic isn't it? Seems that the fall out of this scheme is not cycling or pedestrian centred but wholly car based, such as formerly quiet roads now becoming much busier...with cars.

So, even those protesting about it are effectively scoring an own goal as they're moaning about something they appear to profess to be in support of...people driving where they want, when they want. Genius.

it seems strange that they need a consultation to calm down the motor traffic, but in the past, there has never ever any consultation to let lorries, cars, busses, whatever, pass through any road and anywhere.

ChairRDRF, yup. Sorry - fast typing.

Nice one PsiMonk, nice to have a bit of what actually happened being explained.

But: I presume by "vehicle traffic" you mean "motor vehicle traffic".

I am against this attempt at this project. Personally I like the overall idea, but they have hardly gone about trying to achieve said idea in any kind of practical manner.

When talking to the council representatives present over the last week and at the previous meeting, they all admitted to the following issues in the process.

1. They did not conduct a survey of the population within the target area (At the very least data from such a survey would highlight trends of possible technical and social issues and how to work with the community to achieve a better outcome, more so when combined with surveys of cyclists and other relevant demographics that actually live in the effected area)

2. They did not properly consider pedestrian safety – (Moving the traffic to the roads with 2 parks and in between 3 places of worship and a main pedestrian path to the local schools, which are essentially the places with the highest pedestrians.... bravo)

3. Before beginning the trial they did not monitor pedestrian traffic (only vehicle traffic) in the target areas. (that's a pretty vital one – that really should have been one of the first things they did)

4. There was minimal notification (to put it kindly)

And quite frankly they tried to circumvent rather than work with the people in the target area. (well this last one is how it certainly seems)

These 4 basic, obvious and vital issues, all of which occurred in the planning process shows at best a staggering incompetence at gathering data in a trial focused on gathering data. Its rather shocking actually.

Perhaps some of the riders that stream out of the city on their way to the sticks of a weekend should make a little detour into the area and maybe even support a local business by buying a bag of wotsits or something.
It's only just off the top of Lea bridge rd or Forest rd.

@PsiMonk - thanks for posting, quite a lot of info there that the rest of us just wouldn't find out otherwise. I guess the takings up/taking down thing will depend largely on the demographic of the target customer for each business. Even with consultation (as much as that should have taken place), I'm unsure what else could be done about that. I suppose the council may ultimately take the view that businesses will adjust and/or relocate as the environment changes.

So, I'm one of the Waltham Forest Cycling Campaign folks who helped critique the bid and have been working with (and at times against) the council on it for over a year.

A few bits of info for anyone interested:

1. The bid's online - you can just search for it.

2. The trial is just a small patch of the overall area that will eventually shut out most through vehicle traffic. The idea is less confident cyclists get to ride through most of central Walthamstow, from their front door to places they want to get to, without encountering lots of aggressive drivers. The plan also includes action on most local main roads - so there will be good east-west and north-south routes through the area, including proper segregation on Lea Bridge Road, the key commuter route in the borough, into Hackney. It's all due to happen in next 3 or so years too!

3. The "Pembroke Road" or "village" trial that's currently going had a massively bad start because the council essentially didn't bother to tell anyone at all it was happening until two weeks before the trial started (despite us begging them to), they then sent out an incomprehensible jargony letter and map (I couldn't understand either - and I've been working on the plans for over a year!), and turned up at a public meeting with the attitude of "here is this thing we think will be amazing for you, that we're not going to explain, like it you plebs". Strangely enough, they seemed surprised to be met with a near riot. Since then, locals have been predicting the apocalypse and working themselves up into a frenzy... until the trial actually started.

4. Once the trial did start, there was a lot of "OMG it's transport chaos in Walthamstow #gridlock" and blaming the trial. Except it turns out we had a serious of fairly normal problems - traffic lights breaking down, the Blackwall Tunnel being closed for an afternoon - that messed traffic around the entire area up.

5. Now the scheme has been running a week, it all seems to be settling down. There are far fewer people saying "this is a nightmare" and more people saying "I really like it but this bit doesn't work". And the predicted chaos on main roads doesn't seem to be happening. Roads inside the village are also calming down as fewer drivers hurtle in, screech to a halt, shout a bit and then reverse out - and instead just leave the area alone.

6. What doesn't work? Some businesses in the middle of the village are saying their takings are up. Some are saying their takings are way down. Several are also upset about access and other issues. Some residents are saying their roads are worse than ever in the village - as one or two circuitous ways through have been left open. These people and the businesses suffering are doubly cursed as, of course, the council didn't really warn them it was going to happen to them.

7. There remain a hardcore of absolute hating it types also. And these folks are currently trying to whip up a bit of a storm by a) going mad about it all on social media, b) going down to the middle of the village and shouting at people. That said, there don't appear to be loads of them. Most people seem broadly supportive of both the aims of the trial and increasingly the reality on the ground - albeit with plenty of things they want improved or fixed and plenty of understandable anger and confusion about the lack of consultation.

8. What happens next? The council, I think, finally gets it - they're already door knocking and surveying thousands of people in the village and around the edges of the area. They're also promising a huge post-trial engagement process to try and fix as many of the issues as they can before moving to a permanent scheme. And then, all going to plan (ahem), we move onto other areas and main roads!

I'm here if anyone has any particular questions/issues. And WFCC are fairly easily findable online: http://wfcycling.wordpress.com/mini-holland/ - so if you want to get involved great.

Right, for now, I'm off out for a bike ride...

link to the programme

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b04jm9mv

literally the last thing before the end.