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TECH NEWS
Limits power meter 1Limits affordable power meter launches on Indiegogo + video
A power meter called Limits has today started looking for funding on Indiegogo, a contribution of US$249 (£167) securing you a unit when it becomes available in December. That makes it highly affordable by current power meter standards.
The Limits power meter is unique in that it’s a CNC machined cromoly device that fits between your crank and any standard pedal (9/16th x 20tpi axle). You remove the pedal, screw the Limits devices into the hole, and then tighten the pedal onto the Limits. The system is designed to work with any frame, crank and pedal, and you don’t need to replace any existing components.
The Limits power meter measures your cadence using an inclinometer (so there’s no need for a magnet) that, according to the designers, can detect rotational change of less than 1°, while strain gauges measure the force you’re applying and use that, along with crank length, to work out torque.
The system uses this information to calculate your power and sends it to a head unit via ANT+. That means the system is compatible with Garmin Edge computers, for example. The team behind Limits says that future versions will offer Bluetooth Smart compatibility as well.
The designers say that the Limits power meter has IPX7 water resistance, meaning that it can be submerged a metre under water for half an hour. Probably more relevant, it can withstand heavy rain. They claim that Limits will compensate for temperature variations so the accuracy of the data you get won’t be affected by the weather. They also say that you’ll only need to replace the coin cell batteries yearly.
The unit will retain your data even if there’s a drop in communications or your head unit runs out of juice.
What if you come off your bike?
“Limits is engineered to be robust and won’t break even if you crash,” according to the Limits team. “The housing is highly shock-resistant and has been developed to ensure that it is extremely durable.”
The initial version of Limits is single-sided. Like a Stages system, it measures force on just your left leg and bases your total power on that information. The team behind Limits say that future versions of the product will measure power from each leg independently so they will be able to provide left/right balance.
The question everyone always wants answered when it comes to power meters is: how accurate is it? The claim is ±2%, which is the same as Garmin and Stages claim for their systems.
The claimed weight is 47g. The Stages system adds only around 20g to your bike.
The other issue that immediately springs to mind is the effect that the Limits system will have on your Q factor – the distance between your pedals.
“Limits has been used by a number of the Spokes Racing Team and Club Members generating positive feedback with many of the cyclists reporting an improvement in foot position leading to an improvement in comfort, especially over longer rides,” say the team behind Limits.
“Analysis of this feedback highlighted that many cyclists’ knees track outward at the top of the pedal stroke adding unwanted stress on the knee and splaying the power outwards on an inefficient vector relative to the pedal travel. This outward tracking is typically addressed by adjusting cleat position or/and adding spacers between the cleat and shoe to intentionally narrow the knees all the way through the pedal stroke, but this over recruits the stabilizers to track the knee on a unnatural plane.
“Good pedal action involves as straight a vertical tracking of the knees as the rider’s physiology permits. Limits allows the cyclist to ride with a stance width that is comfortable and so allows the knee to track on the most vertically linear path as possible. It stands to reason that this action will put power directly down through the pedal.”
The Indiegogo offer price – from US$249 (£167), plus US$10 (£6.70) postage – makes the Limits system very cheap by current power meter standards. The expected retail price is US$384 (£258).
For more info go to the Limits Indiegogo page or http://limits.technology/technology/.
Mat has been in cycling media since 1996, on titles including BikeRadar, Total Bike, Total Mountain Bike, What Mountain Bike and Mountain Biking UK, and he has been editor of 220 Triathlon and Cycling Plus. Mat has been road.cc technical editor for over a decade, testing bikes, fettling the latest kit, and trying out the most up-to-the-minute clothing. He has won his category in Ironman UK 70.3 and finished on the podium in both marathons he has run. Mat is a Cambridge graduate who did a post-grad in magazine journalism, and he is a winner of the Cycling Media Award for Specialist Online Writer. Now over 50, he's riding road and gravel bikes most days for fun and fitness rather than training for competitions.
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37 comments
If you have an older crankset (like me!), you could buy a 68/73mm one and space it all to the driveside, then fit the 'thingy' on the non-drive side. Q-factor would increase by 10mm but be evenly distributed.
I would have thought that they would have manufactured this into a replacement axle for existing pedals...
THEN they would have a winner!!
A good price for anybody joining the start-up, what would full market price be??
If you have an older crankset (like me!), you could buy a 68/73mm one and space it all to the driveside, then fit the 'thingy' on the non-drive side. Q-factor would increase by 10mm but be evenly distributed.
I would have thought that they would have manufactured this into a replacement axle for existing pedals...
THEN they would have a winner!!
A good price for anybody joining the start-up, what would full market price be??
This interests me and its on the same lines as the garmin Vecta power pedals but 1/5 the price. i will wait and see if its accurate but reading DC rainmakers reviews on Power meters i can see this taking off main stream because the price is so good. as for the Q factor, i bet you could get a 10 mm movement from changing shoe brand so adjusting cleats will compensate for the difference.
I fasten my pedals using an Allen key through the crank arm. How do I attach my pedals to this as I see no way to fit this to my crank and then pass an Allen key through it to tighten up the pedals.
The last two pairs of pedals I've owned don't have flats for a spanner, just the hole to fit an Allen key on the end of the spindle.
I would doubt you can fit them but you could always ask. I had to swap pedal types (from Time to Speedplay) for a similar reason when I started using spacers - as it turns out a good move for a lot of reasons but nonetheless a pain (and extra expense).
Quick update : there's a post on their Facebook page relaying a comment from Limits that there is a hole all the way through to allow for hex key pedals.
Bloody great in terms of compatibility and price. Definitely would prefer both sides to find out if the reason one leg gets tired before the other is power imbalance or something else.
Obviously they would be doing a dummy spacer
I think the q factor is overrated - our bodies cope very well with differences like these.
Q factor is probably marketing like the crazes for different crank lengths. I've had them all and can't tell any Different.
For all those commenting on the right side spacer, it answers that on the indiegogo page...
"TECHNICAL QUESTIONS
Right hand side spacing?
The product is shipped with a dummy LIMITS to balance spacing on the right hand side. "
I'm just waiting to read the small print that says, compatible with everything except campag, same as the rest of them....
Anyway the increased Q factor might stop me wearing holes in the side of my big shoes so quickly
Unusually, not this time
http://limits.technology/faq/
I have sensors in my legs that send out signals to my brain which then computes the amount of pain required to tell me by how much I need to a) slow down or b) go home ! Surprising how accurate this has proved to be over the last 66 years of my life !
Accidentally switched the Q factor on my shoes by left-right swapping a new set of Time cleats. Didn't notice until a few hundred miles later when it came to clean some mud out of them. Q factor = over-rated.
I'm in, take my money.
When they add the right side and BTLE I might be interested.
Oh my Physiotherapist will love this! "They want you do do WHAT?"
It might make no difference at all, but if someone produced a power meter that made your left hand sit a further 10 mm out than your right, or suggested that your left buttock can cope with a saddle that was asymmetrical you might think that things haven't been thought through very well, No?
No , not the same - and reading about it clearly shows they have thought about it and they realise it will cause concern amongst some... it may even not be suitable for some but doesn't make it a show-stopper. There is a reason why some pedal manufacturers produce different spindle lengths and why pedal spacers are sold - don't you think it would be even stranger if everyone had the same optimum stance width ?
I've also not noticed any talk of asymmetry apart from people commenting - not sure where that comes from.
The whole Q-factor obsession puzzles me - has anyone seen any research that suggests that Q-factor makes a difference? Unless of course you're Graeme Obree riding the hour...
I swap between a road bike, MTB and a fatbike without any issues - in fact the fatbike with a whopping 200mm+ q-factor feels more 'natural' - if I jump on a road bike I can feel a twist on my knees.
Would expect the meter comes with a 'dummy' for the drive side?
Here you go.
http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/15438627.2013.852093?journalC...
Interesting, and a different tack to the ones i've seen bits of before... do you happen to have access to the full text for that ? The 'simple hanging test' for Self Selected Q-factor might be interesting for people to play with...
so you are forcing the left knee out by 10mm. designed by engineers , not cyclists
Well, we don't yet know if there's a companion dummy unit.
But clearly you have no knowledge of engineering.
In producing a well-engineered design both the design requirements and practical challenges are considered, with analysis and well-argued reasoning. Engineering in itself tends to be a bullshit-zone, unfortunately that's often added in the marketing process
Q factor may be unimportant, or may be important, but to design something which alters the Q factor almost incidentally and only then claim that it will all be OK strikes me as somewhat disingenuous.
As noted above, it won't be a problem for me, and I'm only commenting from the point of view of an old man who thinks the cycling world continues to head for hell in a variety of marketing led, better than ever, marginal gains, this seasons must have, what can we flog them this week handcart.
As another old man I agree in part - eg folks doing an instant wheel 'upgrade' on buying a bike for the sake of a few hundeed grams and £££.
However, there's a lot to be said for training with power measurement, and it's probably better bang-per-buck than the usual weight-weenie upgrades.
The neat things about this are price and the design. They really shouldn't be as expensive as they are, note some of the recent price drops as competitors alternatives have been released. Plus they're crank, pedal, and wheel agnostic, you can fit them to road bikes, mtbs, and recumbents (which often have short cranks, and people often use SPDs, as I do).
I've used the wattbikes in my local gym a bit - and found myself surprisingly ragged at spinning -plus I've some r/l imbalance as a result of habit but also knee damage..but that's not in the 'bent body position which can't be replicated (KOPS for example). If these are a capable of generating data fast enough for polar force display, this might be a useful addition to the current 'bent, despite it being about 35-40 lbs !
Just what I was thinking, Nixster.
"Nah, I'm far too old and far too cynical to be needing any kind of power meter. I'm sure some one will be along shortly to tell me how indispensable they are..."
Did someone mention Durianrider
?
Well I don't know about you chaps but I'd be wanting my 'q' factor to be symmetrical - do you get a dummy one of these for the drive side?
Maybe they will supply one but, just eyeballing the pictures they've released so far, i'd hazard a guess that you could pick up a standard spacer that's close enough to require a minor cleat adjust at worst.
Yes, they ship with a dummy one for the other side.
Nah, I'm far too old and far too cynical to be needing any kind of power meter. I'm sure some one will be along shortly to tell me how indispensable they are...
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