Two cyclists on Mont Ventoux saved with help of defibrillators after suffering heart attacks hours apart

tomisitt wrote:

I was up there on Thursday.  

 

.... Absolute bedlam...

I too was on the mountain on thursday. Was there for the first guy. Busy day not actually that hot for riding at 10am when the first accident happened. After midday was awful I admit, dangerous yes. 

At 10am I was about 4th or 5th person at the scene, I thought it was a puncture as it looked like someone frantically putting 120psi in a tyre using a mini pump, but as I rolled up it was someone already doing chest compressions.

 They asked if I was a doctor I said no, two guys were doing Continuous Chest Compression which I have watched about on the Internet. every so often they did a pause to give two breaths into the mouth cpr style. They were not sure if what they were doing was correct, or if it was working but well all knew they had to try something, and we needed help fast. The first car at the scene got sent up to chalet reynard some 300 meters up the road. A call was made to the pompiers and an immediate request for an air ambulance made. The guy looked dead. It was just a dead body. no pulse, no response, no breathing.

There were about 10 of us now offering help, all with a bit of knowledge on what to do from many different nations. It was desperate, chaotic. We all had patches of information but no one had real trainning. The guy was ghost white, a dead body. The guys pumping the chest were doing a perfect job from what I could remember from youtube videos on the subject - hard and fast -  so I took over traffic duties, warning descending cars/cyclist and moving on car's who were no help as we had taken up one lane of the road, keeping road clear for help when ever it might arrive.

After 6 or 7 minutes of me being there, probably 9 or 10 minutes for the guy the defibrillator arrived in a small backpack bag by a guy running from down chalet reynard. He knew how to use it and it was like on TV making noise staying keep clear etc and a minute later it did its shock and worked first time. I think it was used a few more times as the guy was still not responding to us, but I saw him take a tiny breath. I was busy with traffic as gradually more help arrived and needed to be parked, a police car, army trucks with only a young driver in, and empty pompier van with a young lad, a small medical car. The air ambulance arrived at chalet renard after roughly 25 minutes and they had everything required, oxygen and mask, injections etc. The police car went and got them which was smart. I saw the guy open and close his eyes on request and respond in shock when told he was on ventoux.  A second pompier van arrived with a stretcher with the plan to take him up to the helicopter.

When the police were not needed with the guy, they came and took over my traffic organisation. 45 minutes after I stopped to help I rode on.

Later in the day when I was coming back up I saw the guy who did most the chest compressions descending looking rather happy. So I guess the guy lived and his brain was ok ish as he went into the ambulance. For me it messed me up big time. To see someone so similar to me just dead on the road doing what I do most days. He was so lucky it was a busy day with a number of people who had their shit together to help, and to be in range of the defibrillator. not bang in the middle of the climb, and to have someone who could use it.  It was a shitshow at the time, lots of panic, fear of doing the wrong thing, keep his head walm or cold? but somehow everyone despite being from many differnt nations speaking second lanugages to communcate,  teamed together to help him live. From offering a random pillow at the start, to looking for a pulse while others pumped the chest, to the lady holding a drip for the ambulance crew. Even the people arrived a little late, who didn't have medical knowlegde and kept cycling to get out the way, that was the right thing to do. So many people combined to give him a chance to live.

I know its a lot of text, it effected my day I ended my ride slowly and early, then haven't done anything of note today. Wanted to get it off my chest and hopefully convince some cyclists to watch some constant chest compressions videos. Get on your knees and go though the act of doing it. It gives the brain 10 minutes of oxygen, sure it doesn't work often but that guy would have been dead with out it. Thank who ever thought to put a defibrillator there at the cafe and at the top, we need more of those around. Many french vilages have them outside town halls. He was dead, clinically dead for 10 minutes. and yet, he might live.

velopup wrote:

tomisitt wrote:

I was up there on Thursday.  

 

.... Absolute bedlam...

 

I too was on the mountain on thursday. Was there for the first guy. Busy day not actually that hot for riding at 10am when the first accident happened. After midday was awful I admit, dangerous yes. 

At 10am I was about 4th or 5th person at the scene, I thought it was a puncture as it looked like someone frantically putting 120psi in a tyre using a mini pump, but as I rolled up it was someone already doing chest compressions.

 They asked if I was a doctor I said no, two guys were doing Continuous Chest Compression which I have watched about on the Internet. every so often they did a pause to give two breaths into the mouth cpr style. They were not sure if what they were doing was correct, or if it was working but well all knew they had to try something, and we needed help fast. The first car at the scene got sent up to chalet reynard some 300 meters up the road. A call was made to the pompiers and an immediate request for an air ambulance made. The guy looked dead. It was just a dead body. no pulse, no response, no breathing.

There were about 10 of us now offering help, all with a bit of knowledge on what to do from many different nations. It was desperate, chaotic. We all had patches of information but no one had real trainning. The guy was ghost white, a dead body. The guys pumping the chest were doing a perfect job from what I could remember from youtube videos on the subject - hard and fast -  so I took over traffic duties, warning descending cars/cyclist and moving on car's who were no help as we had taken up one lane of the road, keeping road clear for help when ever it might arrive.

After 6 or 7 minutes of me being there, probably 9 or 10 minutes for the guy the defibrillator arrived in a small backpack bag by a guy running from down chalet reynard. He knew how to use it and it was like on TV making noise staying keep clear etc and a minute later it did its shock and worked first time. I think it was used a few more times as the guy was still not responding to us, but I saw him take a tiny breath. I was busy with traffic as gradually more help arrived and needed to be parked, a police car, army trucks with only a young driver in, and empty pompier van with a young lad, a small medical car. The air ambulance arrived at chalet renard after roughly 25 minutes and they had everything required, oxygen and mask, injections etc. The police car went and got them which was smart. I saw the guy open and close his eyes on request and respond in shock when told he was on ventoux.  A second pompier van arrived with a stretcher with the plan to take him up to the helicopter.

When the police were not needed with the guy, they came and took over my traffic organisation. 45 minutes after I stopped to help I rode on.

Later in the day when I was coming back up I saw the guy who did most the chest compressions descending looking rather happy. So I guess the guy lived and his brain was ok ish as he went into the ambulance. For me it messed me up big time. To see someone so similar to me just dead on the road doing what I do most days. He was so lucky it was a busy day with a number of people who had their shit together to help, and to be in range of the defibrillator. not bang in the middle of the climb, and to have someone who could use it.  It was a shitshow at the time, lots of panic, fear of doing the wrong thing, keep his head walm or cold? but somehow everyone despite being from many differnt nations speaking second lanugages to communcate,  teamed together to help him live. From offering a random pillow at the start, to looking for a pulse while others pumped the chest, to the lady holding a drip for the ambulance crew. Even the people arrived a little late, who didn't have medical knowlegde and kept cycling to get out the way, that was the right thing to do. So many people combined to give him a chance to live.

I know its a lot of text, it effected my day I ended my ride slowly and early, then haven't done anything of note today. Wanted to get it off my chest and hopefully convince some cyclists to watch some constant chest compressions videos. Get on your knees and go though the act of doing it. It gives the brain 10 minutes of oxygen, sure it doesn't work often but that guy would have been dead with out it. Thank who ever thought to put a defibrillator there at the cafe and at the top, we need more of those around. Many french vilages have them outside town halls. He was dead, clinically dead for 10 minutes. and yet, he might live.

 

Wow. Some advice on defibs - anyone can use them, the ones in the UK have voice instruction and won't work if you haven't set it up right (and won't shock in error if there is actually a heartbeat). Undoubtedly the chest compressions are why he is still here so top job by the guys doing those. You mentioned keeping the head hot/cold - cold would be better but I doubt you could do anything about that on Ventoux on summer - his core temp would be through the roof.

kil0ran wrote:

Wow. Some advice on defibs - anyone can use them, the ones in the UK have voice instruction and won't work if you haven't set it up right (and won't shock in error if there is actually a heartbeat). Undoubtedly the chest compressions are why he is still here so top job by the guys doing those. You mentioned keeping the head hot/cold - cold would be better but I doubt you could do anything about that on Ventoux on summer - his core temp would be through the roof.

It was a german who intervened when the guys body got given a jacket to keep it warm, he insisted to keep the head cool to avoid brain damage.

The situation was crazy, so many cooks involved yet looking back with all the wealth of the intenets information... it looks like the group of random international strangers did everything right.

ooldbaker wrote:

I've had both a heart attacks which you can almost ignore sometimes just feeling like an ache somewhere, for me in my stomache and a cardiac arrest which is fatal unles you get fairly immediate help. As the ambulance service said they often go together. In my case the CA came 36 hours after the HA but they can occur at the same time. 

because of this if you ever experience chest pains seek help immediately you are at immediate risk of having a cardiac arrest. The ambulance service told me they never mind if it turns out to be chest pains.

Not just road.cc but the press in general do not understand the difference between the two and also "heart failure" they are three seperate things but the press use them completely interchangeably sometimes all three in one paragraph. Also in the press you never have a HA without it being "massive". Mine was on the serious side and I was told I was lucky to have survived it  but no doctor ever called it massive.

In this country less than 20% of people having an arrest outside of hospital survive so for two patients in France to be still alive means someone should be proud.

Other countries have much better survival rates and often CPR is on the school curriculum. It would take about an hour for children to learn and I cannot imagine many parents would object as the most likely beneficiary wiould be themselves.

Shamefully MPs blocked a bill that would have seen this small but valuable change  http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/tory-mps-block-bill-to-give-first-aid-training-to-children-by-talking-until-time-runs-out-a6742251.html

Thanks for sharing, hope you're now in good health. 

Grahamd wrote:

Thanks for sharing, hope you're now in good health. 

Thank you, never better, thanks to going on 20,000 miles cycled. I had not got on a bike since my teen years before but someone gave me a bike they were going to throw away as I was unable to drive for 6 months. I now, 4 years later, do 100 miles a week. Not the fastest but not bad for a 57 year old who needed a wheelchair to leave hospital.

ooldbaker wrote:

Grahamd wrote:

Thanks for sharing, hope you're now in good health. 

Thank you, never better, thanks to going on 20,000 miles cycled. I had not got on a bike since my teen years before but someone gave me a bike they were going to throw away as I was unable to drive for 6 months. I now, 4 years later, do 100 miles a week. Not the fastest but not bad for a 57 year old who needed a wheelchair to leave hospital.

An inspiration to us all.

Griff500 wrote:

ooldbaker wrote:

Grahamd wrote:

Thanks for sharing, hope you're now in good health. 

Thank you, never better, thanks to going on 20,000 miles cycled. I had not got on a bike since my teen years before but someone gave me a bike they were going to throw away as I was unable to drive for 6 months. I now, 4 years later, do 100 miles a week. Not the fastest but not bad for a 57 year old who needed a wheelchair to leave hospital.

An inspiration to us all.

Any credit goes to the cardiac dept. Dorset County Hospital.

ooldbaker wrote:

I've had both a heart attacks which you can almost ignore sometimes just feeling like an ache somewhere, for me in my stomache and a cardiac arrest which is fatal unles you get fairly immediate help. As the ambulance service said they often go together. In my case the CA came 36 hours after the HA but they can occur at the same time. 

because of this if you ever experience chest pains seek help immediately you are at immediate risk of having a cardiac arrest. The ambulance service told me they never mind if it turns out to be chest pains.

Not just road.cc but the press in general do not understand the difference between the two and also "heart failure" they are three seperate things but the press use them completely interchangeably sometimes all three in one paragraph. Also in the press you never have a HA without it being "massive". Mine was on the serious side and I was told I was lucky to have survived it  but no doctor ever called it massive.

In this country less than 20% of people having an arrest outside of hospital survive so for two patients in France to be still alive means someone should be proud.

Other countries have much better survival rates and often CPR is on the school curriculum. It would take about an hour for children to learn and I cannot imagine many parents would object as the most likely beneficiary wiould be themselves.

Shamefully MPs blocked a bill that would have seen this small but valuable change  http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/tory-mps-block-bill-to-give-first-aid-training-to-children-by-talking-until-time-runs-out-a6742251.html

Agree regarding compulsory first aid training - seem to recall you can't drive in Germany without having been trained, and they do it in senior school. The old man had 5 CA's, a first-aider kept him going until the ambulance arrived and he's still here 11 years later. Took ambulance 8 minutes to reach him, survival rate without CPR for that length of time is basically zero so he's here for that reason alone. Its simple, anyone can do it (although its bloody knackering - 8 minutes of CPR I would imagine is pretty similar to a 10% climb for that length of time) and lives will be saved.

Practical advice - download the St Johns Ambulance app to your phone which lists community defibs - those are also fully automatic and utterly idiot proof.

Welsh boy wrote:

Very unlikely to be a heart attack if they used a defibrillator, much more likely to be a cardiac arrest.  The two are very different things, please learn the difference before posting misleading headlines.

Quote from the London Ambulance Service: "Many Cardiac Arrests are caused by Heart Attacks"

Quote from Britsh Heart Foundation" A person having a heart attack is at high risk of experiencing a cardiac arrest".

Yes the two are different, but they often travel in pairs. 

Griff500 wrote:

Welsh boy wrote:

Very unlikely to be a heart attack if they used a defibrillator, much more likely to be a cardiac arrest.  The two are very different things, please learn the difference before posting misleading headlines.

Quote from the London Ambulance Service: "Many Cardiac Arrests are caused by Heart Attacks"

Quote from Britsh Heart Foundation" A person having a heart attack is at high risk of experiencing a cardiac arrest".

Yes the two are different, but they often travel in pairs. Now who is posting misleading information?

My e-penis is bigger than yours, and that's really important.