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20 mph sign (CC BY-ND 2.0 licensed by Tony Hall:Flickr)Driver risks losing licence for repeatedly breaking 20mph limit
A woman from Bristol says she is being “penalised” after receiving nine points on her driving licence due to being caught breaking a 20 mile an hour speed limit three times within the past month.
30-year-old Rosy Allen fears she will be banned from driving if she is caught speeding again, reports the Bristol Post.
She told the newspaper: “I just feel really gutted. I don’t think it’s fair I’m being penalised for something everyone does.”
Earlier this month, research by the University of the West of England found that the city-wide speed limit had saved four lives and prevented 11 serious injuries in Bristol since it began to be phased in during 2014.
Government figures published last year, however, suggested that four in five drivers across the UK ignore 20 mile an hour limits, prompting campaigners to call for greater enforcement.
> 20mph speed limits ignored by four in five drivers
Ms Allen was caught by mobile speed cameras deployed by Avon & Somerset Constabulary.
The force provides advance notice of where they will be each week, with the list also published by the Bristol Post.
But Ms Allen insisted: “I do respect the 20 mph limit but no one drives at that speed. It’s so hard to drive at that speed.
“It’s really disappointing. I feel the system isn’t there to help people like me.
“I’m made to feel like a criminal for doing something everyone does.”
“I know it’s not okay but I’m going 26mph.
“It’s going to destroy my business,” she added, explaining that she wouldn’t be able to visit customers in person if she were banned.
The Bristol Post reported that while some motorists in Bristol caught breaking the law by exceeding the 20 mile an hour limit could attend a driver awareness course rather than have their licence endorsed with penalty points, that option was not available to Ms Allan.
The reason? She had also recently been caught driving through a red traffic light.
Simon joined road.cc as news editor in 2009 and is now the site’s community editor, acting as a link between the team producing the content and our readers. A law and languages graduate, published translator and former retail analyst, he has reported on issues as diverse as cycling-related court cases, anti-doping investigations, the latest developments in the bike industry and the sport’s biggest races. Now back in London full-time after 15 years living in Oxford and Cambridge, he loves cycling along the Thames but misses having his former riding buddy, Elodie the miniature schnauzer, in the basket in front of him.
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81 comments
As to judging speed, my bog standard family car will do 17 mph on the flat in 3rd without my foot on the throttle. The slightest pressure will take it over 20 mph
I don't know about you but my car has other, lower, gears that can also be used in such circumstances.
I drove around 6000 miles last year and rode in excess of 10,000. As a motorist I did my best to be courteous and mindful of cyclists. As a cyclist I did my best to be courteous and mindful of motorists.
During my 16,000 miles I saw plenty of cases where people were dangerous and inconsiderate towards eachother, sometimes I was the agrieved party and occasionally I was exasperated by incompetence. It didn't matter what mode of transport I was using, or the other people, there are good and bad on two aned four wheels, in lorries and buses, the latter have frequently seen driving through red lights and one bus driver took it upon himself to tell me to get on the cycle path, a so called professional driver that believes that use of cycle paths is compulsory.
I believe that education is the only way to co exist, drawing battle lines only facilitates battles, but how you educate people that won't listen is a difficult one to work out.
@OldMixte - I tried your screen/keyboard challenge and consistently get less than a second. Do I win a prize?
@OldMixte - you're quoting reaction times, but surely checking your speed in a car is a planned action rather than a reaction?
Planned actions, especially when practised/trained, can be performed at a much greater speed than reactions. Having to suddenly apply the brakes is a much different task than choosing when to cast your eyes down to the speedo. As other people have said, there's plenty of visual cues about your speed all around you so using your speedo can be safely performed when you have clear visibility and can afford to divert your gaze.
Wow. This story merited three pages of comments.
Well done, Si. You’ve earned your February ad bonus.
But if I change into 2nd then the car emits more emissions and causes climate change.
If Bristol had just introduced the 20mph where it mattered instead of everywhere it would probably be better respected but I do think it's a bit much when even the police don't respect it and like one of the other respondents, other drivers don't like it when I stick to the speed limits and try some crazy overtaking procedures.
So the problem is the other drivers which, judging by the story of this moron, will soon be off the roads.
If you really really struggle to stick to 20mph, try sticking to 10 or 15. That limit is a maximum, not your target.
I wish you luck brave warrior!
oh Lordy Lordy, not another my car has got 130bhp,6 gears and a 0-60 time of 8secs. I use all of five of the gears to do 20 mile an hour and takes for ever to pull away in 6th until I’m doing a ton on motorway. Therefore I need a bigger engine.
When did people stop being taught how to use gears and engine in conjunction to ensure the engine is in its power range.
Oh I remember, when them silly your too stoopid to know when to change gear indicators turned up on cars.
I am continually amazed at the number of people here who are perfect, and who seem to be able to judge their speed perfectly and never make a mistake.
Use an on screen stop watch and check the time it takes to take start the clock, take your eyes off the computer screen, glance down to your keyboard and back to the screen and stop the watch. It's around 1.5 seconds, which is normal for research has shown most people have a reaction time of around 0.7 seconds per task so my original 2 seconds isn't far off.
As to judging speed, my bog standard family car will do 17 mph on the flat in 3rd without my foot on the throttle. The slightest pressure will take it over 20 mph and quite frankly I don't believe anyone who says they know when they are 1mph over the limit without checking the speedo. I use my stat nav which beeps at me when I go over the limit, much safer than looking down at the speedo. As to Bristol, there aren't many children who play in the middle of the A38 but like many of the arterial roads Red Trousers put a 20 mph limit on it which even the police don't respect.
No-one is absolutely perfect but if you give a shit about others, about safety and are self critical and self analyse each and every time you go out (and indeed when you are on bike too) so that you better understand stuff, better understand why you have the power to ensure others are safe as well as yourself and that it is YOUR lawful responsbility to so so then you are massively less likely to be harming others.
When you learn to drive there are skills that are hugely important, like knowing how fast you're going without having to spend 2 seconds looking at the speedometer or checking it constantly (like the usual BS spouted by those caught by speed cameras as to reasons why we shouldn't have the cameras).
If you do all those things I suggest one does, you become far more aware of the hazard YOU present to others, not see them as the hazards, you see these things further in advance, you have more time to react and avoid because you are going at a speed you can stop well within the distance you can see to be clear, a rule that should be a MUST in the HC. You become more courteous to others, you actually drive more relaxed too (not always because some twonk can irk you big time on occasion)
Does this standard of driving come instantly, no it doesn't, but you can help yourself become better straight from day one by having the correct mindset and taking responsibility for safety of others which IS in your control. You can go on advanced driving courses too which will give you a better understanding. In fact I think this should be the standard for all drivers not just a select few.
I was 23 when I started driving lessons properly, I'd already been riding in heavy traffic for about 6 years, cycling on the road does IMHO give you a massive head start over other newbies and I took to driving very quickly.
300,000 ish miles later and despite driving lots in peak hours including trudging up and down the A1, around the M25 and lots of times into that there London for 10 years I haven't scratched anyone nor made them feel fear of harm. As I said, I'm not perfect but I try to ensure I'm doing the most I can when I have a machine in my control that I know is all too easily capable of killing many people if I lose control/lack attention for even a second or two. That should be the norm not the exception.
So having had your "facts" torn to shreds, you resort to irrelevant demonstrations which don't match the criteria of checking your speed in a car. I'm beginning to think of some appropriate words of abuse.
It seems many of you don't like to acknowledge the truth.
I doubt that all of you are perfect human beings that can judge your speed so accurately that you never exceed the speed limits. The simple demonstration of how long it takes to glance down at the keyboard is dismissed when in fact it takes longer to check the speedo, yet because I demonstrate the facts I am a moron. Speed judgement is dependent on environment, more objects around easier to judge, flat environment devoid of reference points less easy to judge, just check the research or is it just easier to pontificate? My comments are based on research and human behaviour. If the majority of humans behave a certain way it’s no use just saying they shouldn’t you have to understand why but of course that doesn’t apply to all you perfect people out there.
"I'm beginning to think of some appropriate words of abuse."
You don't counter with facts or research just want to throw abuse, how clever of you.
3 Device Response Time
Mechanical devices take time to engage, even after the responder has acted. For example, a driver stepping on the brake pedal does not stop the car immediately. Instead, the stopping is a function of physical forces, gravity and friction.
Here's a simple example. Suppose a person is driving a car at 55 mph (80.67 feet/sec) during the day on a dry, level road. He sees a pedestrian and applies the brakes. What is the shortest stopping distance that can reasonably be expected? Total stopping distance consists of three components:
Reaction Distance. First. Suppose the reaction time is 1.5 seconds. This means that the car will travel 1.5 x80.67 or 120.9 feet before the brakes are even applied.
Brake Engagement Distance. Most reaction time studies consider the response completed at the moment the foot touches the brake pedal. However, brakes do not engage instantaneously. There is an additional time required for the pedal to depress and for the brakes to engage. This is variable and difficult to summarize in a single number because it depends on urgency and braking style. In an emergency, a reasonable estimate is .3 second, adding another 24.2 feet.
Physical Force Distance. Once the brakes engage, the stopping distance is determined by physical forces (D=S²/(30*f) where S is mph) as 134.4 feet.
Total Stopping Distance = 120.9 ft + 24.2 ft + 134.4 ft = 279.5 ft
Almost half the distance is created by driver reaction time. This is one reason that it is vital to have a good estimate of speed of human response. Below, I give some values which I have derived from my own experience and from an extensive review of research results.
Response speed depends on several factors so there can be no single, universal reaction time value. Here is a list of factors which affect reaction time. In all cases, the times assume daylight and good visibility conditions.
Several of the roads I use on my commute have 20mph limits. It's interesting how many drivers routinely ignore those limits. For one of the roads it makes little sense in having the 20mph limit, as it's wide and there isn't a school around. But the others are narrow and the limit is sensible.
I pass the Herne Hill velodrome in Burbage Road in S London on my commute and it's one of the 20mph roads. It's of note that despite the speed bumps and the parked cars, many drivers want to go faster than 20mph. I was riding down there on my motorbike the other day and some poltroon in a Mercedes decided that 20mph was too slow, so after tailgating me, the driver overtook and sped off. Of course I overtook the Mercedes, and the car in front, at the next junction.
When will the evil that is the motor car be recognised for what it is? In a previous time, not so long ago, we British recognised the evil of guns and so legislated to vastly reduce their ownership by a population shot through (!) with self-centred little skinbag sociopaths who would ocassionally employ a gun to scratch their queer mental itch.
Yet the death rate from gun was small compared to the carnage wreaked by the car.
Of course, even cyclists will moan that the car is "convenient" or even "necessary". Similar moans were heard about hand guns. Yet the car has only existed as a techno tool for a few decades - during which it has massacred millions and maimed billions. It's only convenient until it isn't, like a gun. And like a gun, it induces humans with a certain kind of human nature to be all-too-human (lethal, in this instance).
There are lifestyles and economic arrangements possible without a car. They might even be more "competitive". They would scupper a number of vested interests, including the interest of Toads everywhere to drive about poop-poop style.
If we must have the dangerous things, they really ought to be regulated to the degree required by the amount of danger they pose. Allowing any eejit to drive one seems a poor notion. Allowing those that somehow become licensed to drive, despite their inability to do so, to continue to drive in a dangerous fashion seems even dafter.
One person's freedom always detracts from the freedom of another (to live or go unmaimed, in this case) without the application of associated duties to mediate the freedom. Why don't post-modern folk seem to know this?
Cugel
No they weren't.
Yes they were.
Also that they were "a harmless pleasure", just like driving your tin contraption about over-vigorously whilst pretending you're an important Steve McQueen-like person on a mission, even if it is only to get to the hairdresser for a touch-up to your bufon.
Cugel
I'm sure thi will be picked up on road.cc later, but it's particularly relevant to this article. Edinburgh reporting a drop of 24% in road casulties since 20mph limit was introduced: https://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/news/24-per-cent-drop-in-road-cas...
Are we angry enough to do something about it yet?
No?
Ah, well.
I'll check back in say, May or June of this year. Maybe sooner, when the next cyclist is killed, and you're all beating your chest, tearing your clothes and wailing that it's so unfair, and that something has to be done, and how can the courts let these drivers off with a suspended sentence and a four-month ban.
Toodle-pip.
Who are these "we"? In Blighty, everyone is "an individual" who, despite actually being a clone-mind of the mass-media (various crude flavours are possible) has "a right" to "freedom" to be hisself or herself. DailyMail-woman must remain unfettered! (Except by Paul Dacre's Svengalis).
As to becoming angry then doing somthing about it - this seems the fundamental problem rather than any kind of solution. Regard the antic of a white van man or brat-delivery SUV driver for confirmation of this fact.
Cugel
Being made to feel like a criminal for breaking the law. How unfair.
Feminism scores another victory.
Pourquoi?
Parce que nous voyons ici une femme incapable d'accepter que ses actes aient des conséquences. Tout ce qui lui arrive, c'est forcément la faute à quelqu'un d'autre.
I follow your french, but not your logic. There are plenty of male drivers who fail to see their actions have consequences - how is this a feminist issue?
Bigotry scores another comment.
Yeah, that guy is quite literally Hitler.
This is massive. History tells us he killed himself in 1945. How is he still alive? Why is he posting on an english language cycling website? Why has he chosen the username "Legs_Eleven_Worcester"? So many questions! Have you told the media or the authorities about this? He must be really old now but he should still stand trail for his crimes.
Obviously you haven't seen the Hitler Rants Parodies, otherwise you would know that he is still alive and he's even had friendly chats with all the other Hitlers - and that he farts a lot and doesn't know where Berlin is and doesn't like baldy headed people or that twat Fegalein - who? - Fegelein - FEGELEIN.
Don't be silly, the hitler rant videos are just a clip from the movie Downfall, and people add their own subtitles in an attempt to be funny. Whereas this poster is the actual Hitler. Else Yorkshire Wallet is either lying or doesn't know what the word "literally" means.
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