LNER to rethink "dangerous" bike storage on new trains

ConcordeCX wrote:

This is how to do it. They also have a great attitude

http://www.caltrain.com/riderinfo/Bicycles/Bikes_on_the_Train.html

Two or three bike carriages per train, limited (!) to 72 or 80 bikes per train. Lower deck for bikes, upper deck for cyclists, arranged so you can keep an eye on your bike.

where California leads, the rest of the world follows. In only 25 years we might have trains like these!

 

 

Nice 1.

Down here, not sure what the modern trains are like, the trains I used to use were well set up and I guess it'll be similar nowadays.

Before 0900, after 1500 Monday to Friday inclusive. Bike cost extra. About half cost of adult ticket; equal cost of pension /student ticket.
Between 0900-1500 and weekends; free.

Twin opening on both sides. Mostly row seating, back to back, 3 depth one side, 2 depth otherside. Maybe 3? I'm vague.

Near doors were inner walls to seperate seating from door openings. Between inner walls and row seating were seats with backs to outer wall (fuselage). Perfect to gift to handicapped yet often useable to hold a bike.
Some trains had bike carriages. An emptiness along the wide side fore or aft of door, a hand rail that would easily hook a dropbar in the slot.
A 2 train ride was about 1.5 hours, seats near the bikes allowed correspondence during moments when old heavy steel frame beasts looked like their owners were the 'no brains on trains' type about to dump such on something lightweight and fragile, hence the ability to smile and glad fully rearrange such that the heavy beast took the compression.
Best train ride though.. Went all the way up the hill, basically didn't have to pedal to study on train days and ride home was more downhill with the afternoon breeze.

ktache wrote:

Sorry HP, could not resist...

Choo choo!

ktache wrote:

Sorry HP, could not resist...

I'm always astonished at your squirrel pictures; exactly how do you get them to pose?  Attenbrough himself would be proud.

burtthebike wrote:

ktache wrote:

Sorry HP, could not resist...

I'm always astonished at your squirrel pictures; exactly how do you get them to pose?  Attenbrough himself would be proud.

You can try training them with a nut, but to be truly successful, you have to become the nut.

hawkinspeter wrote:

burtthebike wrote:

ktache wrote:

Sorry HP, could not resist...

I'm always astonished at your squirrel pictures; exactly how do you get them to pose?  Attenbrough himself would be proud.

You can try training them with a nut, but to be truly successful, you have to become the nut.

Zen in the art of squirrel training

burtthebike wrote:

ktache wrote:

Sorry HP, could not resist...

I'm always astonished at your squirrel pictures; exactly how do you get them to pose?  Attenbrough himself would be proud.

Taxidermy.

hawkinspeter wrote:

@JudgeDreadful - when commuting with my bike, it's usually a local service I.e no cycle booking is possible. However, sometimes that train is cancelled and the next train is a High Speed one I.e. booking may be needed. However, it never used to be possible to book a cycle space within an hour of travelling and also, it's often not possible to book a cycle space if you're not buying a ticket at the same time. Any suggestions on how I can play the game?

Without wishing to pre-empt the Judge's reply, have you considered lying down on the tracks?

burtthebike wrote:

hawkinspeter wrote:

@JudgeDreadful - when commuting with my bike, it's usually a local service I.e no cycle booking is possible. However, sometimes that train is cancelled and the next train is a High Speed one I.e. booking may be needed. However, it never used to be possible to book a cycle space within an hour of travelling and also, it's often not possible to book a cycle space if you're not buying a ticket at the same time. Any suggestions on how I can play the game?

Without wishing to pre-empt the Judge's reply, have you considered lying down on the tracks?

I don't think they let you book that option

hawkinspeter wrote:

@JudgeDreadful - when commuting with my bike, it's usually a local service I.e no cycle booking is possible. However, sometimes that train is cancelled and the next train is a High Speed one I.e. booking may be needed. However, it never used to be possible to book a cycle space within an hour of travelling and also, it's often not possible to book a cycle space if you're not buying a ticket at the same time. Any suggestions on how I can play the game?

Ride your bike, rather than put it on a train, if it's that much of a faff.

Judge dreadful wrote:

hawkinspeter wrote:

@JudgeDreadful - when commuting with my bike, it's usually a local service I.e no cycle booking is possible. However, sometimes that train is cancelled and the next train is a High Speed one I.e. booking may be needed. However, it never used to be possible to book a cycle space within an hour of travelling and also, it's often not possible to book a cycle space if you're not buying a ticket at the same time. Any suggestions on how I can play the game?

 

Ride your bike, rather than put it on a train, if it's that much of a faff.

Yeah, I ride it home if the weather's okay, but my work doesn't have showers so cycling in doesn't work so well. To be fair, GWR doesn't bother insisting on the cycle bookings now, so I can wedge in my bike (aero rims will not fit on the hooks).

By the way, your attitude seems to sum up the UK approach to integrated transport.

Judge dreadful wrote:

It's not hard to make it work properly, but people generally seem to be a bit brainless about how it could be made to work / what they need to do to get it to work. At the end of the day, the train company's hands are tied, by the design of the train, but if they afforded cycling passengers, the same deal that passengers who require mobility assistance get, it could be made to work. They just need to stipulate that if you have a bike booking, you have to let them know, when you're travelling, and arrangements can be made to ensure that you / and your bicycle are accommodated, by turning up at a requisite time ahead of the train's arrival, like they do with assistance passengers. Anyone who kicks off about it, and how the bicycles have to be dealt with, to get it on the train, doesn't get on the train. Again, cyclists need to 'play the game' here a bit. Certain train's designs aren't perfect, regarding cycle storage, that's obvious, but it's not hard to get it to work, it just requires a bit of joined up thinking, from both the cycling customers, and the train companies. For example, in the first picture, if the bike on the inside, had its bars rotated clockwise, and the other bike, had its bars rotated clockwise, then hung up by its rear wheel, both bikes would have fitted, and the door would have closed. It's not hard, and would just require a multi tool to do it. 

I think that the essential problem is that the train Co's don't care about making it work, or want to put too much (any!) effort into making it work. They've been able to tick a box saying "Has the train got cycle storage? Yes/No" and they're happy with that.

Judge dreadful wrote:

At the end of the day, the train company's hands are tied, by the design of the train, ....

No.  The rail companies specify what they want and the manufacturers provide it.

This is yet another example of a completely foreseeable situation, not being foreseen by those whose job it is to do exactly that.  We appear to be a H&S obsessed society, except when it comes to certain things, so while some people turn purple if you don't wear a useless piece of plastic, they are entirely willing to overlook much more dangerous behaviour and situations like this.

burtthebike wrote:

Judge dreadful wrote:

At the end of the day, the train company's hands are tied, by the design of the train, ....

No.  The rail companies specify what they want and the manufacturers provide it.

To be fair in this case they didn't,the DfT back in 2009 specced these trains up,though whether the train co would have come up with anything better is probably a moot point

Awavey wrote:

burtthebike wrote:

Judge dreadful wrote:

At the end of the day, the train company's hands are tied, by the design of the train, ....

No.  The rail companies specify what they want and the manufacturers provide it.

To be fair in this case they didn't,the DfT back in 2009 specced these trains up,though whether the train co would have come up with anything better is probably a moot point

Thanks for the clarification.  Why did this happen?  How did the DfT spec something for private companies?

burtthebike wrote:

Awavey wrote:

burtthebike wrote:

Judge dreadful wrote:

At the end of the day, the train company's hands are tied, by the design of the train, ....

No.  The rail companies specify what they want and the manufacturers provide it.

To be fair in this case they didn't,the DfT back in 2009 specced these trains up,though whether the train co would have come up with anything better is probably a moot point

Thanks for the clarification.  Why did this happen?  How did the DfT spec something for private companies?

arguably it was just politics, the DfT who were going through a secretary of state per year at the time, simply decided it was better placed to handle replacing all the high speed train fleet instead of leaving it to the train leasing co's & franchises to sort out ,so they sent out a spec of the trains they wanted, asking for train manufacturers to bid for the work to build them

But the interior specifications particular emphasised increasing the passenger carrying capacity per carriage whilst minimising the amount of space for luggage to ensure maximum space for available seating capacity. So its no wonder they ended up with a broom cupboard arrangement for bicycles.

Judge dreadful wrote:

if they afforded cycling passengers, the same deal that passengers who require mobility assistance get, it could be made to work.

But I'm not disabled, and I'm perfectly capable of loading a bike onto a train without assistance. Just helps if that bit of the train where bikes go is fit for purpose - which these aren't.

Train staff have better things to be doing.

Judge dreadful wrote:

... but people generally seem to be a bit brainless about how it could be made to work / what they need to do to get it to work.

Apologies for the harshness ... but that's your goodself?

Judge dreadful wrote:

At the end of the day, the train company's hands are tied, by the design of the train  ...

Rubbish.  Train companies issue specifications for the trains they might consider purchasing/leasing.

Judge dreadful wrote:

... but if they afforded cycling passengers, the same deal that passengers who require mobility assistance get, it could be made to work ...

Nice.  So yu really do appear to think that rail travel is a bed of roses for travellers with diabilities.  Potential-and-real rail passengers with disabilities would disagree.  https://www.theguardian.com/society/2019/jul/08/majority-passengers-disa...

Judge dreadful wrote:

They just need to stipulate that if you have a bike booking, you have to let them know, when you're travelling, and arrangements can be made to ensure that you / and your bicycle are accommodated, by turning up at a requisite time ahead of the train's arrival, like they do with assistance passengers.

Absolutely brilliant insight ... NOT.  Doesn't work for the bike-rail-bike commuter.  Thank the Good Lord you don't run Northern Rail ... their practice is superb!

Judge dreadful wrote:

Anyone who kicks off about it, and how the bicycles have to be dealt with, to get it on the train, doesn't get on the train.

Have a word with the rail operators.

 TPT recently turfed me out of the cycle provision on a Leeds-Manchester train.  Despite me being the only one of the three cyclists WITH a bloody reservation.  Fortunately, I know the layout of the TPT trains, scooted up the platform, and used the wheelchair section.

Judge dreadful wrote:

Again, cyclists need to 'play the game' here a bit.

WTAF!

Judge dreadful wrote:

For example, in the first picture, if the bike on the inside, had its bars rotated clockwise, and the other bike, had its bars rotated clockwise, then hung up by its rear wheel, both bikes would have fitted, and the door would have closed. It's not hard, and would just require a multi tool to do it.

 

WTAF!  You're seriously suggesting I do this twice a day?  Once to work, and again on my return?

Forgive the anger of my reply.

It is very much coloured by my experience of Northern Rail.  Whatever their policy (same as the other operators), their actual practice is first-class.

Specifics:-

- they accept far more than the two bicycles allowed by policy - I've seen nine;

- they accept pennyfarthings (yup, seen once);

- they accept cargo tricycles (yup, done that myself);

- they accept dad-and-youngster on tandem, + two other kids on their bike (yup, done that many a time);

- always with unfailing courtesy, friendly help, and flexibility.

And here, your "cyclists-playing-the-game" does count.   From personal experience of 20 years rail-bike-rail commuting, there ARE routes in to/out of Leeds where I VERY willingly choose earlier trains, avoiding those times when their commuter trains are most congested, and often seriously over-loaded. 

I've got it wrong a couple of times - my fault, and I've waited for a later train.  The least I can do, given 20 years of flexibility, courtesy, and friendliness.  

Thumbs up, every time, for Northern Rail!

With respect - there's just a wee difference between your post and my reply?  Dare I suggest that I actually know what I'm talking about?  

growingvegtables wrote:

Judge dreadful wrote:

... but people generally seem to be a bit brainless about how it could be made to work / what they need to do to get it to work.

Apologies for the harshness ... but that's your goodself?

 

Judge dreadful wrote:

At the end of the day, the train company's hands are tied, by the design of the train  ...

Rubbish.  Train companies issue specifications for the trains they might consider purchasing/leasing.

 

Judge dreadful wrote:

... but if they afforded cycling passengers, the same deal that passengers who require mobility assistance get, it could be made to work ...

Nice.  So yu really do appear to think that rail travel is a bed of roses for travellers with diabilities.  Potential-and-real rail passengers with disabilities would disagree.  https://www.theguardian.com/society/2019/jul/08/majority-passengers-disa...

 

Judge dreadful wrote:

They just need to stipulate that if you have a bike booking, you have to let them know, when you're travelling, and arrangements can be made to ensure that you / and your bicycle are accommodated, by turning up at a requisite time ahead of the train's arrival, like they do with assistance passengers.

Absolutely brilliant insight ... NOT.  Doesn't work for the bike-rail-bike commuter.  Thank the Good Lord you don't run Northern Rail ... their practice is superb!

 

Judge dreadful wrote:

Anyone who kicks off about it, and how the bicycles have to be dealt with, to get it on the train, doesn't get on the train.

Have a word with the rail operators.

 TPT recently turfed me out of the cycle provision on a Leeds-Manchester train.  Despite me being the only one of the three cyclists WITH a bloody reservation.  Fortunately, I know the layout of the TPT trains, scooted up the platform, and used the wheelchair section.

 

Judge dreadful wrote:

Again, cyclists need to 'play the game' here a bit.

WTAF!

 

Judge dreadful wrote:

For example, in the first picture, if the bike on the inside, had its bars rotated clockwise, and the other bike, had its bars rotated clockwise, then hung up by its rear wheel, both bikes would have fitted, and the door would have closed. It's not hard, and would just require a multi tool to do it.

 

WTAF!  You're seriously suggesting I do this twice a day?  Once to work, and again on my return?

 

Forgive the anger of my reply.

It is very much coloured by my experience of Northern Rail.  Whatever their policy (same as the other operators), their actual practice is first-class.

Specifics:-

- they accept far more than the two bicycles allowed by policy - I've seen nine;

- they accept pennyfarthings (yup, seen once);

- they accept cargo tricycles (yup, done that myself);

- they accept dad-and-youngster on tandem, + two other kids on their bike (yup, done that many a time);

- always with unfailing courtesy, friendly help, and flexibility.

 

And here, your "cyclists-playing-the-game" does count.   From personal experience of 20 years rail-bike-rail commuting, there ARE routes in to/out of Leeds where I VERY willingly choose earlier trains, avoiding those times when their commuter trains are most congested, and often seriously over-loaded. 

I've got it wrong a couple of times - my fault, and I've waited for a later train.  The least I can do, given 20 years of flexibility, courtesy, and friendliness.  

 

Thumbs up, every time, for Northern Rail!

 

With respect - there's just a wee difference between your post and my reply?  Dare I suggest that I actually know what I'm talking about?  

My my, you have a lot to say don't you, unfortunately the post is total gibberish. As you so succinctly put it "WTAF".

Judge dreadful wrote:

My my, you have a lot to say don't you, unfortunately the post is total gibberish.

Good for your credibility, mate.  Twenty years experience of bike-rail-bike commuting dismissed by the pub-bore.  Ah well.

Judge dreadful wrote:

It's not hard to make it work properly, but people generally seem to be a bit brainless about how it could be made to work / what they need to do to get it to work. At the end of the day, the train company's hands are tied, by the design of the train, but if they afforded cycling passengers, the same deal that passengers who require mobility assistance get, it could be made to work. They just need to stipulate that if you have a bike booking, you have to let them know, when you're travelling, and arrangements can be made to ensure that you / and your bicycle are accommodated, by turning up at a requisite time ahead of the train's arrival, like they do with assistance passengers. Anyone who kicks off about it, and how the bicycles have to be dealt with, to get it on the train, doesn't get on the train. Again, cyclists need to 'play the game' here a bit. Certain train's designs aren't perfect, regarding cycle storage, that's obvious, but it's not hard to get it to work, it just requires a bit of joined up thinking, from both the cycling customers, and the train companies. For example, in the first picture, if the bike on the inside, had its bars rotated clockwise, and the other bike, had its bars rotated clockwise, then hung up by its rear wheel, both bikes would have fitted, and the door would have closed. It's not hard, and would just require a multi tool to do it. 

Did you read all the article?
One complaint was that the wheels did not fit.
What about full mudguards?
What are those folded 'seats' in the picture? Are they for squirrels to sit on?
Buggering about with your steering whilst being forced to hurry is not a good idea