E-bikes and e-scooters – as well as pedal cycles being ridden recklessly – could be banned from part of Thames Path in London

Where are rabid drivers involved?

I think it's a good example of why we should build proper cycling infra and stop creating more conflict between cyclists and pedestrians.

That happens because a) most car-free space is eagerly used by pedestrians, because it's rare and b) we normally "create" space for cycling by re-labelling existing paths.  Apparently we can't "afford" to take space from motorists elsewhere for separate, safe and efficient cycling.  (More expensive than signs and paint and controversial).

Yes - there's a measure of "currently pedestrians don't expect cyclists" but that must be going away in places like London at least.

Cyclists tend to go where they feel safe.  That doesn't mean most want to go at walking pace.  If they're still using a path which is narrow / has lots of pedestrians that says there is real desire for cycling here.  Plus it doesn't feel safe enough for cycling nearby.  That needs fixed, not just "let the cyclists go down the path but slow them down.  And if some don't behave nicely ban them".

I think the difference here, re E-bikes, are illegally desrestricted opportunistic feeling "safe" from getting caught, as opposed to legal restricted E-bikes which are mostly slower than push bikes.

It's a real pity if legal E-bike users are compromised by this law change. When my partner and I use ours, we're slower than trundling families on mountain bikes. The assistance is because he has club feet and gout, so such a law change would exclude people who can manage a 2 wheeler, but need slow assistance.

RGN007 wrote:

I think the difference here, re E-bikes, are illegally desrestricted opportunistic feeling "safe" from getting caught, as opposed to legal restricted E-bikes which are mostly slower than push bikes. It's a real pity if legal E-bike users are compromised by this law change. When my partner and I use ours, we're slower than trundling families on mountain bikes. The assistance is because he has club feet and gout, so such a law change would exclude people who can manage a 2 wheeler, but need slow assistance.

I've had a handful of gout attacks and what I've found to be really effective for me is to take Montmorency cherry powder capsules. I initially tried the concentrated juice, but the capsules are more convenient and don't have a taste (the concentrated juice is over-poweringly sweet and tart). The other things that helped was reducing the amount of mackerel that I was eating and increased water drinking.

Strangely, I found that I was fine cycling during an attack as with cycle shoes, my foot wasn't trying to flex, but walking was very difficult - my attacks have been mainly around the big toe joint (the most common place, I believe).

I know we're suffering from the effects of climate change but that's the strangest squirrel I've ever seen.

brooksby wrote:

So have they laid out their objective definition of "riding recklessly", if they intend to empower their neighbourhood traffic warden types to issue fines for it?

Totally off topic but can never hear the offence without thinking of a friend of mine who teaches in the US who was asked by a student why reckless driving was so bad, "If you never have a wreck that's good, right?"

I thought Segways and Hoverboards qualified as motor vehicles already, requiring license, insurance etc.

Segways and hoverboards aren't legal to use in public anyhow.

Banning ebikes (as much as wtjs would like to ) is absurd.

I'd be intrigued as to how any one will know it's an ebike or what would happen if assistance is not turned on.

Especially as, for the purposes of superior national  legislation, a EAPC is a bicycle. 

but presumably at the moment the police would have to be involved to enforce that legislation, which as can be witnessed daily on the streets of London, isnt a terribly high priority for the Met.

but with a PSPO in place the council can hire a bunch of enforcers, and they can just issue fixed penalty notices and not get bogged down in the legalities of the scooters or ebikes.

I can see why theyre doing it though, I walked along part of it during the summer around Hammersmith and I was surprised at how speedily some people were scootering/ebiking and even riding normal bikes on what is a narrow shared path in places, with pedestrians and dogs, runners, small kids, and there were more than a few near misses and it wasnt that busy at lunchtime I can well imagine 6pm on a sunny evening people wandering around stopping to look at the views, or deciding to drop into one of the bars and it getting quite an unpleasant experience.

Awavey wrote:

but presumably at the moment the police would have to be involved to enforce that legislation, which as can be witnessed daily on the streets of London, isnt a terribly high priority for the Met.

but with a PSPO in place the council can hire a bunch of enforcers, and they can just issue fixed penalty notices and not get bogged down in the legalities of the scooters or ebikes cars.

Why can't we just do that for cars too?  "Sorry mate, reckless driving bylaw, here's a fine, it's just an admin matter..."

It could catch on!  You could have it for things that don't currently attract penalties like, I dunno, speeding, parking on pavements / otherwise illegally, not having insurance / MOT...

This is already happening, bit by bit. Not quickly enough in my opinion.

Local authorities can apply to enforce some traffic infringements, e.g. yellow boxes (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-berkshire-63580590) and speeding (https://roadsafetygb.org.uk/news/wandsworth-council-starts-issuing-speed....)

I hope the local authorities do a better job than the police, and that other local authorities cotton on and join the queue.

Here's hoping.  Lots of LAs have applied for the right to do that with parking but around Edinburgh it seems supply (of wardens, of penalties) isn't keeping up with demand!  Or at least finding motor vehicles in the cycle lane / on the pavement / abandoned in odd places isn't the rare occurrence I would wish it to be.

I never understood - if motorists are such cash cows - how our struggling Local Authorities aren't milking them more vigorously?

(Scotland isn't helping itself by not rushing to sort out pavement parking of course and then there's the UK cycle lane parking fudge which the government here declined to fix).

If a human being is needed to enforce in person (i.e. parking warden) then enforcement is going to be far less vigorous than where a camera system can automatically send a fine in the post (e.g. bus lane camera, yellow box camera, speed camera, etc.).

I wish we could send in photos of badly parked cars, tbh. Bad car drivers should be milked far more vigorously in my view.

Also sounds like a good idea.  I can't find any detail to back it up but my local cycle group says that the Scottish Government has refused to allow automatic number-plate recognition (ANPR) cameras to be used for prosecutions (for pavement parking - other things also?) so that may currently be a barrier in these parts.  I'd like to see the detail on this before further comment though as it makes me wonder what ANPR is for if true here...

they do...for driving into bus lanes, passing no-vehicle signs, ignoring signed instructions, 20mph speed limits, parking offences.

It could catch on!  You could have it for things that don't currently attract penalties like, I dunno, speeding, parking on pavements / otherwise illegally, not having insurance / MOT...

But it almost certainly won't, depending on where you live. You missed out, on your list of things the police can't be bothered with because they're not real offences, use of a handheld mobile phone while driving and long-term evasion of VED- in Lancashire you can commit both offences at once and still the police are too busy... This is the driver of Mitsubishi Shogun TN07 CHM controlling the wheel with his left hand while holding the phone to his left ear with his right arm crossed across his chest. I have no doubt that Lancashire Constabulary thinks that evading VED for only 31 months is worthy of a Good Citizenship award, and in any case VED evasion is nothing to do with them. It doesn't matter, because they're not going to do anything about either offence anyway (remember that the time displayed is GPS and is exact- even though I can't display the seconds

chrisonatrike wrote:

Awavey wrote:

but presumably at the moment the police would have to be involved to enforce that legislation, which as can be witnessed daily on the streets of London, isnt a terribly high priority for the Met.

but with a PSPO in place the council can hire a bunch of enforcers, and they can just issue fixed penalty notices and not get bogged down in the legalities of the scooters or ebikes cars.

Why can't we just do that for cars too?  "Sorry mate, reckless driving bylaw, here's a fine, it's just an admin matter..."

It could catch on!  You could have it for things that don't currently attract penalties like, I dunno, speeding, parking on pavements / otherwise illegally, not having insurance / MOT...

That is what the whole de-criminalisation of parking some moving traffic offences (bus lanes, box junctions etc) is about.

And there was me thinking it was just the police gratefully passing the buck on something which would otherwise potentially suck up lots of their time and which lots of their lords and masters probably weren't keen on either.

I actually think this is a good principle.  I think we should "drain the drama" out of a lot more motoring offenses by making them more "administrative".  However a) this is currently patchy b) it all needs to be far more efficiently enforced to have the effect that I think it should have.  That probably means that it is indeed an "expense" for councils. Despite these things being a potential revenue source according to aggrieved drivers! c) in connection with both that and "fairness" it probably needs some more national standardisation (in terms of process).  That's clearer and fairer and hopefully will leave less lucrative easy work for the Mr. Loopholes of this world.

Also, with road safety being a fairly emotive topic, the local politicians can capitalise on it by promising better enforcement. When the enforcement is managed by the police, there is no way they can follow through. But with it managed by local authorities, they can not only follow through, but also focus on areas that make the most impact (which will win the most votes next time round).

Win - win.