Mario Cipollini jailed for three years for domestic violence

Is the folding of the former Ale Cipollini women's cycling team last year linked in any way to this?

I don't believe so. Ale Cippollini merged with BTC Ljubljana in 2020, to be Ale BTC Ljubljana and then UAE took them over in 2021 for 2022 and they became UAE Team ADQ, and rode Colgnagos

I think we had enough of canceling.

For example I decide to cancel Cippo's bikes and somehow convice everybody to do so. Mario will simply say "ok that didn't work out," relax in his villa and close his production line and as a result many people who depend on their jobs will lose their only income. And if a super rich and famous guy may beat his wife, guess what the weirdest of all of his fired workers may do when he suddenly learns that he lost his job.

Then I would have to quit my job, if I work on Windows and mr Gates had supposedly harrased a girl, if I had an iPhone, throw it away, because mr Jobs was cruel to his employees, If I watched Disney films, stop watching them because they once turned down women designers, stop buying anything American because they killed buffalos and indigenous Americans, stop buying anything British because they had killed half the world the previous centuries and finally go live in the woods waiting for apples to fall from trees so that I can ethically eat them.

Personally I try very hard not purchase anything manufactured in China. Impossible? Yes it is, but when there's an alternative that's what I purchase. It's called "choice" the great libitarian shibolleth and one that they don't like being exercised in anyone's favour but thier own. 

You raise a fair point... we can all choose who we do and don't support based on what's important to us individually, but if you dig beneath the surface of nearly all significant businesses there will be sufficient dirt to warrant a swerve. 

I find the hypocracry of cancel culture rather tiresome. 

As for Cipo, he was a bit of a hero of mine, alas no more, sounds like the 'roids got to him! Fingers crossed a few years peace and quiet to reflect on his conduct may help him change. 

Jimmy Ray Will wrote:

I find the hypocracry of cancel culture rather tiresome. 

I find it odd that many of those decrying "cancel culture" appear to be doing so from a right-wing perspective. I can't think of anything more straightforwardly economically-conservative than individuals deciding for their own reasons what they want to spend their money on, and  businesses that don't attract that money failing. 

Cyclisto, are you ok? 

Jumbotron wrote:

Cyclisto, are you ok? 

Sure, don't worry, I haven't started the ethically fallen apples diet.

@Rendel Harris of course I have bought and you probably have too. I have used electricity and heat from russian gas like most of us here I guess.

PS I didn't know that story was as old as GBS, I first saw it at a film "Nine Queens"

cyclisto wrote:

I think we had enough of canceling.

So are you opposed to all "cancel culture" (a silly and pejorative term, I would call it "moral sanction")? If you could buy products from or invest in a company directly owned by Vladimir Putin that you knew was re-investing the profits into chemical weapons to use in Ukraine, would you go ahead? Closer to home, if Jimmy Savile's crimes had been discovered before he died, would you have been happy to go on buying products made by companies owned by him or endorsed by him, knowing that you were putting money in his pocket? If the answer is yes, then you clearly occupy a rather different moral plane to most people; if the answer is no, then you clearly haven't actually "had enough of cancelling", you are just, to paraphrase George Bernard Shaw, haggling over the terms.*

Personally I couldn't stand Cipollini when he was racing so I wouldn't have wanted his name on my bike anyway, but even if I had been a huge fan I wouldn't now be happy about riding around with the name of a convicted wife beater emblazoned on my machine.

* For those who haven't heard the story, always worth repeating and quite relevant in this context: GBS was at a dinner party sitting next to an American woman who opined that nobody's morals would hold out if the price was high enough. GBS thought about this and asked, "Would you sleep with me for a million pounds?"

"I certainly would," the lady replied.

"Well, would you sleep with me for sixpence?"

"Certainly not, what sort of woman do you think I am?"

"Madam, we have already established what sort of woman you are, we are now merely haggling over the price."

Rendel Harris wrote:

Closer to home, if Jimmy Savile's crimes had been discovered before he died, would you have been happy to go on buying products made by companies owned by him or endorsed by him, knowing that you were putting money in his pocket?

His abuse was well known and tolerated in the BBC. There was the infamous John Lydon interview that was suppressed https://www.theguardian.com/music/2015/sep/24/john-lydon-says-he-was-banned-from-bbc-over-jimmy-savile-comments

Interview: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rjy8oLVOvi4

cyclisto wrote:

Then I would have to quit my job, if I work on Windows and mr Gates had supposedly harrased a girl, if I had an iPhone, throw it away, because mr Jobs was cruel to his employees, If I watched Disney films, stop watching them because they once turned down women designers, stop buying anything American because they killed buffalos and indigenous Americans, stop buying anything British because they had killed half the world the previous centuries and finally go live in the woods waiting for apples to fall from trees so that I can ethically eat them.

I wish that more people had stopped using Windows ("cancelling" seems to be a right-wing term that carries strange connotations) back when Microsoft were abusing their monopoly to destroy competitors (e.g. Netscape). Though, thinking about it, it was more like Microsoft were "cancelling" other companies by deliberately sabotaging their software with each new release ("Dos ain't done until Lotus won't run"). Also disturbing, was their abusive forcing of proprietary formats down consumers' throats and even now companies routinely use Excel or Word formats despite their poor documentation and inter-operability. (Okay, as a long-time Linux user I've got some axes to grind).

Disney are a worrying company and they certainly made some offensive movies back in the day. "Education for Death - The Making of the Nazi" back in 1943 is a propaganda film that they certainly don't publicise and they certainly shy away from those old cartoons featuring a Nazi Donald Duck. Good luck finding "Song of the South" in Disney's back catalogue as Disney "cancelled" their own film as it's considered offensively racist. Walt Disney himself was certainly a nasty piece of work (https://www.theguardian.com/world/2006/nov/26/film.usa), but he somehow presented an image of himself being a kindly, uncle figure. Personally, I think Disney's biggest crime is the continual lobbying for extension of copyright laws, just so that Mickey Mouse doesn't fall into public domain which to me is disrupting the agreement between copyright owners and the commons that is the whole point of copyright law.

I'm not even going to address the various abuses of the U.S. and the British as I'd be here all day.

As I see it, we should remember and acknowledge the abusive actions of the past as the wealthy and powerful put a lot of effort into hiding what they have been doing (or continue to do) so that they can present themselves as virtuous. Whether you choose to boycott a business is your choice of course and it can be a very powerful tool for the dis-enfranchised.

hawkinspeter wrote:

I'm not even going to address the various abuses of the U.S. and the British as I'd be here all day.

Out of curiosity, do you consider them worse than other major powers of the past couple of centuries. e.g. other European former imperial powers, the Soviet Union/Russia, China? 

Dnnnnnn wrote:

Out of curiosity, do you consider them worse than other major powers of the past couple of centuries. e.g. other European former imperial powers, the Soviet Union/Russia, China? 

I don't think it's something that you can meaningfully compare, but they're all pretty bad.