“A huge setback for active travel”: Non-foldable e-bikes to be banned from most Transport for London services to “ensure safety of customers and staff”

I assume you can carry an e-bike battery on the tube if you leave the bike at home. 

"Excuse me sir, does that come from a folding bike?"

Who voted for these idiots? Oh, right.

who would lug an e-bike onto an urban train network anyway - unless they were travelling hundreds of miles? 

I lug something heavier (a proper bike and Bob camping trailer) onto the excellent Merseyrail, which is definitely urban and only runs from Southport to Chester. That avoids a lot of miles on death-roads.

Someone who lives in London and wants to get out to the countryside without riding for 45 minutes each way through urban/suburban streets? Someone cycling one way and getting the train back the other? Someone who has had a mechanical they can't fix? Someone whose battery is flat and they're not able to cycle home unassisted? Your lack of imagination doesn't mean that this won't limit active travel for many.

Non folding bikes are only banned from deep tunnel sections of the tube network with surface sections only having restrictions at peak times.

Rome73 wrote:

Non folding bikes are already banned from the tube network [...]who would lug an e-bike onto an urban train network anyway - unless they were travelling hundreds of miles? 

You can take a non-folding cycle outside peak times (7.30-9.30, 16.00-19.00) on lots of underground services, in fact the majority outside the very centre of town (map here). I can well imagine someone who lives, say, 10 miles from Watford Junction and who has business at Canary Wharf wanting to use an ebike from Watford Junction to Euston and then ride the 6 miles to Canary Wharf from there. For a lot of people 32 miles in total commuting in a day is too much unassisted but doable with an ebike.

Are the outer reaches of the Elizabeth line also part of the ban, I'm thinking the Reading to Paddington stretch?

ktache wrote:

Are the outer reaches of the Elizabeth line also part of the ban, I'm thinking the Reading to Paddington stretch?

I'm afraid so, anything operated by TfL apart from the Woolwich ferry and the Silvertown Tunnel bike bus when it opens next month.

Just wait 'till you hear about "cars" which have pedals you only have to push once for a little pedal assist *!

* Let the pedantry commence.

Except I wasn't compairing ebikes to cars like you do here, I was comparing ebikes with regular bikes, and pointing out that in the name of pedal assist, lots of things changed for the worse.

Sredlums wrote:

Except I wasn't compairing ebikes to cars like you do here, I was comparing ebikes with regular bikes, and pointing out that in the name of pedal assist, lots of things changed for the worse.

Correct - except in the UK people aren't normally choosing between a bike and an ebike*.  It's between a few of their car trips and trying an ebike for them.

Are you writing from the perspective of e.g. NL where the share of non-powered bikes is going down?  I understand that (it's definitely a case of "OK, we'll sell a mini motorbike instead of a car" or "we'll hugely upsell a bike (as ebike) instead of upselling a car (as SUV)").  But in the UK there is a specific difference in the situation **.

I am also am skeptical about e-everything - the environmental impact of all the batteries and extra materials, reduced possibility of "re-use" (e.g. as discussed urther down this article), the "gateway" effect allowing companies to try to grab the small amounts of motor-vehicle-free space or make things less safe with "why not legalise a bit faster" / "but if we could take a tiny van on the cycle path..." and trying to sell ever more tech (anti-lock brakes becoming "required" soon, to cope with the increased power and weight?)

Plus the combination of in-practice-unregulated non-street-legal ebikes and the "offload the risk and standard employee management, costs and responsibility onto the public" food delivery business model is far less than welcome.

BUT - for worse - in the UK we don't have the luxury of the "bike vs. ebike" problem **.  Because to a first approximation people in the UK do not cycle (outside of parks, MTB trails and velodromes - and even then it's a minor activity).  For any possible further switch to active travel is shut off by the dominance of mass motoring.

* EAPC we might hope since they are legal to use like a bicycle.  However quite a lot are of course getting non-category-approved electric motorbikes, not legal to use almost everywhere.

** We are not likely to have a "serious ebike problem" in the UK until we make space for cycling and make driving less easy - which appears to have got not much closer to UK reality since NL started transitioning away from mass motoring in the 1970s.

Although it's possible that it would be a bit harder to find a non-powered bike in a mainstream shop by the time we make a change?  And we may have the "emotorbike / escooter on the footway" issue prompting more calls to ban cycling.

Sredlums wrote:

And all that for a little pedal assist… 🤷🏻‍♂️

That little pedal assist that allows people with disabilities and debilitating illnesses to use bikes instead of cars, that allows people who have become too elderly to cycle meaningful distances to use bikes instead of cars, that allows people whose commute is too long to use an unassisted bike to use bikes instead of cars. I certainly don't wish upon you that you will ever reach a stage where you would have to choose between using an e-assist bicycle or giving up cycling, but if it does ever come to you, as sadly it will come to most who live long enough, perhaps you'll gain a little more empathy and understanding instead of constantly and tediously ranting against them. And I hope that nobody, seeing you use a "little pedal assist" that you need to help you use a bike instead of using a car, is such a dick as to accuse you of laziness for doing so.

I'd say my 'constantly and tediously ranting against them' is a very tiny drop in an ocean of people, brands, marketeers, cycling media etc. praising them, don't you think?

Surely you can handle someone pointing out some less than ideal side effects?

I fully support people with disabilities, illnesses and the elderly to make use of pedal assist. That's great. And if it helps people leave the car at home more often, that's cool too.
But that doesn't mean that we should ignore the reality that
A: the vast mojority of ebike users don't fall in any of those categories. Most are just regular people, of all ages. Young kids, zooming around without even pedalling. People riding short distances. 20 year olds doing runs on eMTBs. Rides that were previously done on normal bikes.
B: the way bikes have transformed soley for some pedal assist is completely over the top. A bike shouldn't have to be double the weight, triple the price, and a quarter the durbility just to have that assist.

I realise that many things I mention are less prominent in countries where cycling is less common, but believe me that in a cycling country like The Netherlands, ebikes as they are now come with many, big downsides.
People hardly drive any less, they just now ride assisted.

Sredlums wrote:

Rides that were previously done on normal bikes.
 

How many of those rides were previously done on normal bikes?

Steve K wrote:

Sredlums wrote:

Rides that were previously done on normal bikes.
 

How many of those rides were previously done on normal bikes?

Being pedantic - how far do you want to go back?  Far enough and the answer was "all of them, and all the ones done in cars as well ... only people's transport patterns were different (as was the built environment) so not sure how fair the comparison is".

The same applied in the UK (and obviously further back still and the bike was a horse!)

Given how hard it was possible to sell us on cars (despite cost and all the drawbacks), I do think they have slightly more than half a point.

If the same level of brilliant influencers, marketeers and lobbyists who invented "jaywalking" and brought in mass motoring can still be found AND the motor industry here foresaw cars losing their dominance in a short enough time... I'm sure it could be fixed such that within a generation or two most people would be riding ebikes.  And unpowered bikes would be not necessarily illegal but certainly just as niche as they are now.  (I don't actually believe this as it stands since I think there's a strong "path dependence" e.g. the history is important).

I had a job yesterday on the other side of London to where I live. I went on an e - cargo bike. I took a work stand, tool kit, parts, change of shoes, spare jacket, a flask of tea and other bits for the job. It took me 60 minutes to cycle there and 60 minutes back. It was sunny and I even stopped for a while in Hampstead to admire the view. If I had gone by van, it would have taken me at least 2 hours each way. I would have had to pay the congestion charge and parking (if I found any) of around £1 per 15 minutes. And I would not have been able to stop and admire the views in Hampstead Heath. So, yes, e-bikes are quite useful and make the city more accessible. 

Wait till you get old and your knee is buggered. Then you will be grateful for an epac.

Non-folding bikes are already banned on certain parts of the TfL network & times of the day/week. Maybe that's set the precident?

Also, a folded bike is much easier to put in a bag & travel incognito. Good luck expecting TfL gate staff to check for smuggled bikes in bags!

chrisonabike wrote:

Is it "theoretically foldable" or do you have to prove it?

I wish some people would be forced to prove it, a pet hate is Brompton riders who force their way onto tube/overground services without folding their bikes; I've actually seen one or two being stopped at the ticket gates and assuring the operatives there that they are just pushing it to the platform and will then fold it up, they get there and don't! Absolutely no idea why you would do this but it happens.

Just make sure you get the units right when ordering. 

Well it's always easy to fit them into the frame ...

Every bike is foldable once.