Is this the more environmentally-friendly cycling waterproof we've been waiting for? A first ride in the new Santini Magic rain jacket

If it's got a membrane then wetting out is no problem, the membrane will still stop the water coming through

the membrane stops the water coming through from the outside, but a wetted out jacket stops any breathability

(though, in wet conditions, no jacket has much breathability because there is de minimis difference in humidity inside and outside the jacket)

In my experience all the waterproof breathables, from the original Gore-tex on, are either one or the other, but at different times. If it's honking down they don't really breathe, they only really breathe when it's dry and you are working hard. Maybe this one will be different, but I ain't holding my breath.

Yup, sort of makes my carrying a gortex active in the bag for the big rain a bit pointless, means I'm getting damp whatever.

fizrar6 wrote:

Great idea to make it black, especially now the dark nights are upon us.

Assume you think the same about black cars?

Or the grey ones. The way that some of them can blend into various shades of tarmac is quite incredible. It is a strange fashion.

Have that argument with the black car once it's hit you when wearing this jacket in the rain. 

It's ridiculous to wear black on a bike in ANY weather, let alone in rain.   

I tend to have the argument with the driver rather than the car.

cardch wrote:

Have that argument with the black car once it's hit you when wearing this jacket in the rain. 

It's ridiculous to wear black on a bike in ANY weather, let alone in rain.   

I would have the argument with the driver rather than the car, and if the driver has hit a cyclist because "they didn't see you" that would be because the driver had not looked properly, no matter what colour the cyclist was wearing. A driver who makes the proper checks will see a cyclist in daylight, raining or not, no matter what colour they are wearing, a driver who doesn't won't. 

When I'm driving, I find it helpful when cyclists wear bright clothes.

Even one of the country's highest-trained drivers, former police pursuit instructor Reg Local, commented that he found it helpful when cyclists wore bright colours.

https://youtu.be/UPN_XvaYU2k?feature=shared

I prefer having small bright blinking lights on my bike then I can wear what I like. Making myself visible from as far a distance is my priority...if motorists then cannot plan or make the right decisions once they are nearer to me, what I'm wearing makes no difference what so ever.

Lights and reflective stuff on ankles and knees is the best way to go.

That pretty much sums up my set up, especially now the nights are drawing in...reflective bands on my ankles...a couple hanging off my bag and a couple of lights front and rear...touch wood, I've never been in a collision yet.

I find it helpful when cyclists wear bright clothing—even if they have lights—when I'm driving. 

While I use lights when I'm cycling, I recognise they can be lost in a sea of car headlights.

When I'm in the car driving seat, I find cyclists who combine lights and bright clothing the easiest to spot early, aiding my forward planning.

I find when I'm driving, what really helps me notice cyclists and pedestrians is having a mindset of expecting to see cyclists and pedestrians without them having to resort to hi-vis and crazy colours and patterns...you know, actively looking for other road users other than motorists.

NotNigel wrote:

I find when I'm driving, what really helps me notice cyclists and pedestrians is having a mindset of expecting to see cyclists and pedestrians without them having to resort to hi-vis and crazy colours and patterns...you know, actively looking for other road users other than motorists.

Me, too. Nonetheless, I find it helpful when cyclists wear bright colours (ideally combined with lights). 

Let's not dismiss bright clothing when someone like me—I cycle most days and hold advanced driving qualifications—finds bright colours helpful. Moreover, the police advanced driving instructor I mentioned—someone with exceptionally well-trained observation skills—said the same thing about a little bright colour being a lot of help.

Let's consider the opposite situation: how to avoid being seen. Colour is one of the things—alongside shape, shine, etc.—used in camouflage. There's a reason I didn't wear bright orange in my infantry days.

Another_MAMIL wrote:

When I'm driving, I find it helpful when cyclists wear bright clothes.

Several studies have shown that visibility, as one would expect, is highly dependent on background: in different circumstances white, coloured or indeed black clothing shows up best (e.g. against the backdrop of a white building a rider in black is more visible than one in white or yellow). I do think there's an element of confirmation bias in drivers' perceptions of different colours: if they spot a cyclist wearing bright colours they think they've seen them because of that, if they spot one wearing dark gear they think they've seen them despite that. Equally, if they make a mistake and miss a cyclist in dark colours it's the dark colours that are to blame, not the fact that they didn't look properly. The fact remains that anyone who looks properly during daylight hours will see a cyclist no matter what colour they're wearing and those who don't, won't. I have a couple of dark jackets and several with fluorescent/reflectives and ride 8000-10,000 kms a year, 90% in heavy London traffic, and I can honestly say that I get exactly the same number of SMIDSYs in the bright gear as I do in the dark. Completely different question at night of course where I wear Proviz and am lit up like a Christmas tree (three lights front, three back, two side and light on helmet), but in the day I honestly don't think it makes that much difference and certainly not the amount that the anti-cyclist (for the avoidance of doubt I'm not suggesting you are one) brigade claim. 

The fact remains that anyone who looks properly during daylight hours will see a cyclist no matter what colour they're wearing and those who don't, won't

Happened to me this morning in bright sunlit daylight, on my way to the nutter food shop in Lancaster. Roundabout in the centre of Garstang, I was already well round it, dimwit on loud rubbishy Harley type bike with feet out front, would be a Trump supporter if he was American, coming in from the entrance I'm passing, looks to his right but doesn't slow so I'm suspicious and, sure enough, I had to take evasive action. Useless old bugger, but younger than me. People like that don't look and don't see.

maybe you should pay more attention on the road.

Mybike wrote:

maybe you should pay more attention on the road.

Let's not dismiss bright clothing when people with well-trained observation skills find it helpful.

I actively look out for cyclists as I cycle most days, plus my driving observation skills have been trained and tested to a more advanced level than most car drivers. Nonetheless, I find it helpful when cyclists wear bright colours. 

The police advanced driving instructor I mentioned—someone with exceptionally well-trained observation skills—said he found a little bright colour a lot of help. 

Let's not dismiss bright colours when even highly-attentive and well-trained car drivers find them helpful. We should help the drivers who are looking out for us when we cycle.

Another_MAMIL wrote:

Let's not dismiss bright clothing when people with well-trained observation skills find it helpful.

I actively look out for cyclists as I cycle most days, plus my driving observation skills have been trained and tested to a more advanced level than most car drivers. Nonetheless, I find it helpful when cyclists wear bright colours. 

The police advanced driving instructor I mentioned—someone with exceptionally well-trained observation skills—said he found a little bright colour a lot of help. 

Let's not dismiss bright colours when even highly-attentive and well-trained car drivers find them helpful. We should help the drivers who are looking out for us when we cycle.

I'm not worried about the drivers with good observation skills when I cycle, the problem is with distracted drivers not looking. I usually go for bright green cycle clothing (usually with black shorts/tights) myself, but I really don't think it makes much difference to my safety on the roads.

Another_MAMIL wrote:

Let's not dismiss bright colours when even highly-attentive and well-trained car drivers find them helpful. 

A highly-attentive and well-trained driver should be able to spot a cyclist in broad daylight whatever colour they are wearing. Anyone who's incapable of spotting a cyclist in normal daytime conditions, be they wearing black, brown, yellow, white or pink, or any combination thereof, shouldn't be driving.

buy a  light just like the blk cars have lights so you can see them in the dark

Agreed - a jacket designed to be worn in conditions where visibility is lower and the launch colour is black seems daft (unless of course there is a decent amount of high vis on the back).

To then talk about black cars smacks of whataboutism.