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Red light 'hoppers'

by Leviathan
Thu, Apr 10, 2014 12:50
38

Not a new phenomenon, but it seems to be on the rise and very erksome. I am getting very sick of red-light hoppers, not jumpers. The fact is a lot of red-lights at main junctions can't be jumped because of crossing traffic and the very real chance of being squished. So I am riding to work and overtake another biker, but get to the next junction and stop at the light. Same biker comes cruising past and stops at the corner in front of me. Not looking at the light or the line but looking at the traffic to see if he/she can pull away as soon as there is a gap or they stop coming. They pull away and so do I but now I am stuck behind their slow moving ass. I can't overtake them because they are moving so slowly and overtaking cars are moving too quickly to move out and the road is too narrow, I am boxed in! I have no choice but to wait for the road to change or a gap in traffic. If I do get to move out a few hundred yards down the road I just get to the next set of lights and the whole maneuver repeats. Thankfully I can often put some distance between myself and them if I catch the end of a green.

I know this isn't a piece of etiquette anyone ever gets taught but if I get overtaken by another rider (this rarely but inevitably does occur) who then stops at the next lights I don't put myself in front of them. There are a lot of new people cycling, which is good, but by-heck some of them are knobs.

Feel free to criticize my don't-get-in-my-way/holier-than-thou attitude, or my use of run-on sentences.

If you're new please join in and if you have questions pop them below and the forum regulars will answer as best we can.

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38 comments

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KiwiMike replied to Leviathan | 10 years ago
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bikeboy76 wrote:
KiwiMike wrote:

A British societal norm is not to jump a queue, but in this case there is also no queue.

queue
kjuː/Submit
noun
1.
BRIT.
a line or sequence of people or vehicles awaiting their turn to be attended to or to proceed.
synonyms: line, row, column, file, chain, string, stream;

"Same biker comes cruising past" <- explicitly states OP was occupying a section of road wide enough for others to pass. There is no obligation to not utilise all space available, particular to then obtain primary position ahead of motorists - which is the purpose of ASL's that TfL et al instruct cyclists to use.

Many sections of road have two lanes to allow side-by-side queueing of vehicles so as not to build long tailbacks across junctions. Some motorists take affront to these being used, as though the drivers to their right are somehow 'jumping the queue'. This is silly. 'You aren't stuck in traffic - you ARE traffic' applies to bikes as much to cars.

If you're upset because other people move around you to fill the available space that you aren't at the front of already, you are in for a lifetime of it as numbers of people new to cycling hopefully increase.

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Leviathan replied to KiwiMike | 10 years ago
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KiwiMike wrote:

"Same biker comes cruising past" <- explicitly states OP was occupying a section of road wide enough for others to pass. There is no obligation to not utilise all space available, particular to then obtain primary position ahead of motorists - which is the purpose of ASL's that TfL et al instruct cyclists to use.

Nice try at a quote out of context. I said "get to the next junction and stop at the light. Same biker comes cruising past..."
Why would I not have already stopped at the appropriate stop line? Why would I not have already stopped in a ASL if one is available? I don't know if you ride in the UK much KiwiMike but the lights are always set back from the junction. These guys are riding past me, through the lights and stopping on the edge of the junction just as far as the traffic will allow.

If your argument is 'let them get on with it' then fine, others have said that already, but you are attempting to dress this up as my mistake. I suspect you regularly get out dragged by roadies at the lights. See you next Tuesday.

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KiwiMike replied to Leviathan | 10 years ago
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bikeboy76 wrote:
KiwiMike wrote:

"Same biker comes cruising past" <- explicitly states OP was occupying a section of road wide enough for others to pass. There is no obligation to not utilise all space available, particular to then obtain primary position ahead of motorists - which is the purpose of ASL's that TfL et al instruct cyclists to use.

Nice try at a quote out of context. I said "get to the next junction and stop at the light. Same biker comes cruising past..."
Why would I not have already stopped at the appropriate stop line? Why would I not have already stopped in a ASL if one is available? I don't know if you ride in the UK much KiwiMike but the lights are always set back from the junction. These guys are riding past me, through the lights and stopping on the edge of the junction just as far as the traffic will allow.

If your argument is 'let them get on with it' then fine, others have said that already, but you are attempting to dress this up as my mistake. I suspect you regularly get out dragged by roadies at the lights. See you next Tuesday.

Heh. No need to get personal there petal. I do about 6-7,000km a year in the UK and cycle in London semi-daily. Am I allowed to comment now? 1

I wasn't taking anything out of context - I can envisage your setup exactly. So you're right on the second white line of the ASL, and your gripe is with them riding a meter or so beyond then stopping. OK, that's a £50 fine if the light is red. You are actually talking about RLJ. Different discussion.

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Leviathan replied to KiwiMike | 10 years ago
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KiwiMike wrote:

I wasn't taking anything out of context - I can envisage your setup exactly. So you're right on the second white line of the ASL, and your gripe is with them riding a meter or so beyond then stopping. OK, that's a £50 fine if the light is red. You are actually talking about RLJ. Different discussion.

Jeez you really are trying to be obtuse. Nowhere have I said I am at a 'second' line. I am at the stop where I should be. I specifically distinguished between these 'hoppers' over RLJs because they can't get through the junction but still put themselves ahead of other cyclists even if they have just been overtaken by the same. It is this blocking behaviour I am talking about. You still seem to be under the illusion that it is something I am doing that makes people act like this.

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KiwiMike replied to Leviathan | 10 years ago
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bikeboy76 wrote:
KiwiMike wrote:

I wasn't taking anything out of context - I can envisage your setup exactly. So you're right on the second white line of the ASL, and your gripe is with them riding a meter or so beyond then stopping. OK, that's a £50 fine if the light is red. You are actually talking about RLJ. Different discussion.

Jeez you really are trying to be obtuse. Nowhere have I said I am at a 'second' line. I am at the stop where I should be. I specifically distinguished between these 'hoppers' over RLJs because they can't get through the junction but still put themselves ahead of other cyclists even if they have just been overtaken by the same. It is this blocking behaviour I am talking about. You still seem to be under the illusion that it is something I am doing that makes people act like this.

OK, fair point - let's just call it 'the line' - whether there's an ASL behind it or not is irrelevant. It's a line you are not allowed to cross if the light is red. The people you describe are red light jumpers. £50 fine. The fact they then decided not to go much further is kinda irrelevant. If there's no ASL it would explain their behaviour even moreso - they want to get away from the cars and into a primary position.

(noting you did say 'Feel free to criticize my don't-get-in-my-way/holier-than-thou attitude' - this is exactly what it is. The infrastructure is crap (otherwise you'd have room to safely pass), and people are just doing what feels right/justifiable)

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FluffyKittenofT... replied to Leviathan | 10 years ago
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bikeboy76 wrote:

These guys are riding past me, through the lights and stopping on the edge of the junction just as far as the traffic will allow.

OK, so they are jumping the red. OK, agreed, that (in the circumstances you describe) is a bad thing.

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jmaccelari | 10 years ago
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I am of the same opinion, but have come to realise that some people just could not give a toss. Inform them that they're doing something wrong and you'll generally get a '**** off' for your efforts. It's a great way to stuff up your own mood for the day. It's not worth it.

I find the best is to lead by example. It's amazing how much like sheep people are. If one person stops, most will stop. If one person goes, most will go. So I stop at lights and most people stop with me.

There are always the tossers who don't, but then accept that they will hopefully be the ones removed from the gene pool early and get on with enjoying your ride.

As for the ones who push in the front and then can't ride to keep in front, I find that coming flying past them like they're standing still makes up for it for me. I like to chase them down like little bunnies...

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Jack Osbourne snr replied to jmaccelari | 10 years ago
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This is the bane of my life on one stretch of my commute. Four sets of lights set a couple of hundred yards apart.

Further down the road is a bus lane which ends at a set of lights with an ASL box at the front. Usually, I'll stop behind any buses because they have a clear run for a quarter of a mile to the next bus stop... Mr and Miss slow however, invariably sail past me, wriggle their way into the box and hold everybody up as they wobble away from the lights at 3mph. There is no feeder lane into the ASL box, and frequently they'll be pushing themselves along with one foot on the kerb to get up the side of the bus.

These two sections of road really make me hate a lot of other cyclists.

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