Phil 'N Paul Bingo

Like it or not, Phil and Paul are still THE voice(s) of cycling. For all their faults. Carlton is flying by the seat of his pants and relying on his 'world of pain' whimsy to disguise the fact he doesn't really know what's going on. Sean Kelly's droning drives any sane man to switch back to ITV4. As do Rob Hatch's ridiculous over-pronouciations. Or that French presenter clown on Eurosport with the red trousers boring us senseless with those Greg Lemond chats. Did Greg say anything remotely perceptive or insightful over the whole TDF? No, I didn't hear it either. Boardman, Imlach and Boulting wipe the floor with Eurosport. Case closed.

Quote:

My wife knows 'Little Tommy Voeckler' and that he 'turns himself inside out'. Makes him sound like a bloody sea slug btw. And the 'Jens Voigt' is a popular man in the peloton, and that he has 'shut up legs' written on his cross bar......because Leggwin say it twelve times a stage.

Many years ago as a kid watching the half hour highlights on Channel 4...
Even my mother knew that Mario Cippolini was called 'The Lion King' because Phil said it every bloody time.
My mother is only just aware that the Tour exists but after a week of it being on in the background she knew every nickname!

I'm convinced that Phil and Paul have a list of all the riders along with an adjective:
"big" (Magnus Backstedt)
"little" (Thomas Voeckler, Bryan Coquard)
"popular" (Jens Voight)
etc
Their age (so they can repeat ad nauseam that such-and-such is "only 22 years of age" or conversely "nearly 40 years of age")
Their nationality (so that every time they see a flag of that nation they can say "the [country] flag there flying for [rider]")

It's just filler - they're contributing nothing useful in terms of information, they just feel the need to talk cos they're there and they'll fill any empty space with the same old clichéd rubbish.

Although I think alongside that list, Paul must have a list of every significant building on the race route supplied to him by the French Tourist Board
"And look here Phil, this is the Chateau de Saint Marie which was built in 1384 and has magnificent stained glass windows"
[ticks box, collects 50 euros from French Tourist Board]

Shame cos the ITV4 pundit team of Gary Imlach, Chris Boardman and Ned Boulting are genuinely brilliant, the rest of the ITV4 coverage is ruined by Phil & Paul.

I've got Classica San Sebastian on EuroSport at the moment with Brian Smith and Magnus Backstedt and there's some really interesting insights in there - transfer windows, tactics, the nature of the course... Genuine knowledge and interest.

You know, I 'd absolutely love to hear Michael Smiley doing a spot of commentating/punditry.

If any TV types are browsing the site, get on the phone and make it happen.

I like the fact Carlton Kirby gets so caught up in the racing, especially the heroics. He burst into tears during RVV when Stijn Devolder crashed for the third time and still got up to chase down the bunch. Similarly, Tony Martin on stage 6 of the Vuelta when he solo TT'd the full length and lost by 3 metres. Kelly, Backstedt and Smith are all excellent tempers to his excitement and it's a good balance.

That said, I'll watch ES for the live stage but ITV4 for the highlights (and only for Imlach, Boulto and Boardman)

Phil mentioned that a particular rider (can't remember which one) was:

'the oldest 22 year old in the race'......

Having listened to the Telegraph's Cycling Podcast all TdF I can wholeheartedly say that this for me was the best coverage of the race. Combine those guys with the GCN chaps and I reckon you would have a great audio backdrop, even on the slow days.

The current commentating heads of state have done a fantastic job of work, but the elastic is being stretched and it could snap at any minute. They've been tapping out a rhythm these last few years when they should have been on the rivet.

(A little bit of sick just popped into my mouth)

Sherwen: "front 'end' (back 'end') of the main field"

I counted 1,312 in the time I watched. What's wrong with simply "front of the main field/peloton"?

Liggett: "maillot jorne" . You'd have thought he would have spent enough time in France to know how to pronounce jaune. [See also Tommy Voyckler and countless others]

Best commentary/summarising I've heard recently is from Matt Stephens.

Time for a changing of the guard, methinks.

I've noticed on Twitter that a lot of people's dislike of Kelly stems from his accent, particularly from Americans. Which is very odd given that so many of them nearly tear their own legs off to claim Irish heritage. The oddest thing I read was someone slagging him off for calling himself Sean as opposed to John!

I quite like his accent.

I really like Kirby, he is far more entertaining than Rob Hatch or P&P. To call him the Jonathan Pearce of cycling is a little unfair. He obviously loves the sport, he is witty, he is entertaining and with Kelly next to him they work well together.

I admit he is prone to the odd mistaken rider gaffe but it's not that easy to tell sometimes. I remember in particular the Tour of Turkey when the Yates who wasn't involved won the stage despite a few subtle reminders.

I only discovered this on stage 19 but there is a channel with great commentary. Two good commentators with a current cyclist on hand to offer opinion, they were pretty good at identifying riders and telling you what was going on. Their understanding of the race was good and they didn't get too over excited. Pronunciation of rider names was so-so, but excusable considering.
S4C My new home of cycling.

I should add that although though that it's hard to talk constantly on cycling, as often nowt is happening, and I couldn't do better than any of them, in fact the mistakes and catchphrases add to the interest!

Any thoughts on Brian Smith? who was of course a Lance Armstrong team mate....and walked away, he is pretty good, I also like Sean Kelly, but his accent can make it hard listening at times.

The one is hate is when Phil starts talking about GC contenders as 'heads of State'. Which State's are these Phil? They're bloody trade teams you numpty. I'll never forgive Phil for his pro-Armstrong positioning. It was almost enough for me to turn my back on cycling.

They don't really work for ITV 4, their stream is farmed out across a number of anglophone markets. I expect it's cheaper for ITV (or rather the production company, who have been doing the job since the Channel 4 days) to buy that in rather than set up their own dedicated guys, as Eurosport do (which incidentally also makes ES more appealing to those of us who 'second screen' as they can field questions from Twitter etc. during quieter moments).

But who knows - ITV have a slow-burning winner on their hands in their cycling coverage; perhaps they'll be tempted to give them another shoestring to improve the production?

Agree that it is a difficult job. I forgive Phil Ligget most things, but Sherwen often provokes a "FFS shut up Paul" from me.

Ned has released Chris Boardman from his wooden style - a good duo which will surely get better.

This years Tour de France was a great race, without the normal boring ridealong stages that we sometimes get from time to time... and yet the commentary just lacked the same class... they commentate off the same pictures that we see and at times its laughable... Carlton Kirkby should be put out to pasture with the cow that Sean Kelly once won in a race.... I know that fact because so far the repetitive Carlton has told me 1,523 times.... As for Sean, well it just goes to say that great bike riders do not always make great commentators.....

Im not saying that its easy, I just think that it could be done much better.... As for the ITV4 commentary, well I am not even going to comment....

Cycling is gathering more fans all the time, and the TV channels need to up their game and keep up with the pace....

'The Murray Walker' team of cycling! I just can't stand Carlton Kirby, so ITV4 was my spot for watching the tour...

I should start by saying I don't like ripping into Phil & Paul; they are the historic sound of cycling commentary for me; Channel 4 and all that. But they do actually get worse every year. The misidentification and mispronunciation (among the other factual errors they make) is just ridiculous now. As pointed out above, they get weirdly excited at very minor incidents, plus I think we can all now see through Sherwen's tactic of naming about twenty-five 'favourites' for every sprint stage to mask his general disinterest and lack of knowledge.

Sports commentary is a tough job. Commentators (especially I think in football) get too much criticism. But it's reached the stage now where I legitimately believe that, with a bit of practice, I could do a better job than Phil Liggett. Certainly I seem to have a better grasp of basic facts about the race and rider identification than he does. And the fact that he makes Kirby - the Jonathan Pearce of cycling - sound like a master of understated linguistic poise, accuracy and proportional response - says it all.

Your ideal combo would probably be Hatch and Backstedt. I like Simon Brotherton too, but Rob Hatch is the gold standard for cycling commentary right now. Backstedt has been rightly praised for the quality of his analysis, his ability to correctly identify riders (still much harder than it should be for a TV sport, therefore an essential quality in a commentary team) and of course has pedigree as a winner.

Saying that, I do think Hatch & Kelly have developed a nice chemistry and complement each other well. Let's not forget that, for all the fun we can have with his speech patterns, Kelly was a pretty great cyclist and - like the proverbial stopped clock - does sometimes provide the real pithy insight only a champion can offer.

Had to rewind the ITV coverage today when I heard P&P say Richie Porte was riding up to Arc De Triomphe as he descended down the other side of the Avenue.
Pretty sure I heard Sean Kelly mention the Swedish cycling team, Ulrika Green Edge