THis is what we have to put up with

Leodis wrote:

This is the problem when councils create cycle paths/routes, other road users expect/demand cyclists not use the roads. Imho cycle paths are worse for cycling that a painted line on the road.

I'm glad I'm not alone on this sentiment. Cycle lanes merely create more of a difference between 'us and them' and waters down any logical argument against using them. Cycle lanes don't address the major problem of road safety, which is terrible driving and attitudes.

egb wrote:

Cycle lanes don't address the major problem of road safety, which is terrible driving and attitudes.

they do if they're properly designed, protected and segregated, because the standard of driving, and attitudes of drivers, won't really matter.

make the cycle lanes good enough and people won't want to ride on the road instead. the only reason they ( and I ) do is because the lanes are rubbish, because councils aren't required to build them to the standards expected of their european counterparts.

Dave Atkinson wrote:

egb wrote:

Cycle lanes don't address the major problem of road safety, which is terrible driving and attitudes.

they do if they're properly designed, protected and segregated, because the standard of driving, and attitudes of drivers, won't really matter.

make the cycle lanes good enough and people won't want to ride on the road instead. the only reason they ( and I ) do is because the lanes are rubbish, because councils aren't required to build them to the standards expected of their european counterparts.

Yep, rode in Copenhagen a short while ago - what a great set-up. The cycle lanes were all / mostly segregated from the roads, had separate lights, local drivers were attentive to cyclists, etc. So, there was mutual respect was in abundance. OK, the traffic is nowhere near as heavy as in London. But, then was a huge number of cyclists - maybe there's a link...

Dave Atkinson wrote:

egb wrote:

Cycle lanes don't address the major problem of road safety, which is terrible driving and attitudes.

they do if they're properly designed, protected and segregated, because the standard of driving, and attitudes of drivers, won't really matter.

make the cycle lanes good enough and people won't want to ride on the road instead. the only reason they ( and I ) do is because the lanes are rubbish, because councils aren't required to build them to the standards expected of their european counterparts.

The only problem I have with cycle lanes is that they're not for going fast. Or at least the segregated bike lanes are not.

And once they are set up there is the entrenched notion that cyclists should not be on the road if there are good cycle lanes. I don't suppose you are saying that they should replace the bi-ways of our countryside, but more for the commuting areas of towns. Sadly for someone who cannot distinguish between vehicle excise tax and road tax they may have problems with that sort of thinking too.

Colin Peyresourde wrote:

The only problem I have with cycle lanes is that they're not for going fast. Or at least the segregated bike lanes are not.

http://aseasyasridingabike.wordpress.com/2013/02/26/no-you-are-not-held-...

Dave Atkinson wrote:

egb wrote:

Cycle lanes don't address the major problem of road safety, which is terrible driving and attitudes.

they do if they're properly designed, protected and segregated, because the standard of driving, and attitudes of drivers, won't really matter.

make the cycle lanes good enough and people won't want to ride on the road instead. the only reason they ( and I ) do is because the lanes are rubbish, because councils aren't required to build them to the standards expected of their european counterparts.

The attitudes of drivers certainly does matter when the cycle lanes run out. Most of the UK roads aren't going to have lanes on. When some inconsiderate oaf storms past me at 50mph, inches away from my bars on the top of the Mendips what good is a cycle lane in central Bristol? Expensive infrastructure won't change attitudes. Sure it would be nice but it doesn't address the 'road is mine' attitude of drivers that permeates British culture, in fact it does quite the opposite. Education has to be the primary way forward.

Replying to Dave:

Agreed. But realistically, who is going to educate the people making hand held calls from the comfort of their Audi whilst speeding past the nursery?

One simple way would be to have more public information films, and covering all media.

"Don't forget to clear your whole windscreen of snow, or you might kill someone".
"Have a good look around before you open your car door".
"Carry spare batteries for your bike lights"
"Don't take the reflectors off, it won't make you go faster"
"If you hit a cyclist in a car, you will probably kill them, and your insurance will be affected".
"Give cyclists more room".
"This isn't Le Mans".

That sort of thing...

egb wrote:

Dave Atkinson wrote:

egb wrote:

Cycle lanes don't address the major problem of road safety, which is terrible driving and attitudes.

they do if they're properly designed, protected and segregated, because the standard of driving, and attitudes of drivers, won't really matter.

make the cycle lanes good enough and people won't want to ride on the road instead. the only reason they ( and I ) do is because the lanes are rubbish, because councils aren't required to build them to the standards expected of their european counterparts.

The attitudes of drivers certainly does matter when the cycle lanes run out. Most of the UK roads aren't going to have lanes on. When some inconsiderate oaf storms past me at 50mph, inches away from my bars on the top of the Mendips what good is a cycle lane in central Bristol? Expensive infrastructure won't change attitudes. Sure it would be nice but it doesn't address the 'road is mine' attitude of drivers that permeates British culture, in fact it does quite the opposite. Education has to be the primary way forward.

You have a point - I really don't know what the best way forward is outside of urban areas. (Though wouldn't decent parallel routes be a solution in some cases? There's no shortage of space out there).

But there is one way that good infrastructure might change drivers attitudes - it would encourage more people to cycle, and many of those would be people who drive outside those cities. Drivers who themselves regularly use a bike (for actual transport, rather than once round the park on a Sunday) are probably going to be a bit more aware of cyclists even on those roads in the Mendips?

Northernbike wrote:

Anyone expecting Chomsky-Foucault in the comment tread of a local rag like that is always going to be disappointed so don't be too disheartened. Those folks won't be leaving the house much so you're unlikely to meet them face to face.

Not after dark, their tags will go off.

700c wrote:

As for the comments, the local cycle hating trolls got shot down and based on the number of 'likes', do not represent the views of the majority.

So a reason to be cheerful after all!

I'd like to agree with you, if I hadn't heard the "joke" by Joe Wilkinson about running cyclists off the road on 8 out of 10 Cats last weekend. Now, perhaps, I shouldn't give too much credence to such a show. But, it goes to show how acceptable this attitude has become.

There was also a similar comment from Lee Noble on QI some while ago.

I know we're in the "road.cc bubble" here and it's easy to work ourselves up into righteous fury, whilst talking to like-minded folk. However, public acceptance of cyclist-hate is difficult to stomach.

BUT, I do take solace from the stats in your comment, Mr/Mrs/Ms/Miss 700c. Thank you.