Cyclists need to show more respect to motorists, says Salford councillor

I have just read this thread after reading the sportive v. road race story. It seems that some cyclists cannot even show some respect to other cyclists. Examples like that are a breath of fresh air to the anti-cycling brigade and all the evidence they need to 'prove' their irrational dogma.

We = Cyclists. Nothing mythical or confusing there.

But when I passed my driving test I did not hang up my bike, when I passed my hgv test I did not sell my car. I ride to work, jump behind the wheel spend a lot of time behind the wheel then ride home. The only thing I cannot claim to be is a motorcyclist.
I am not sure what that makes me, at one time I drove a large white van.... does that make me white van man? Would I like to defend their actions? I have spent most time driving a red van... are red van drivers worse or better than white van drivers?
So when people say that 'we' should show more respect, what am 'I' supposed to do? Hand out leaflets?
Presumably when handing out these leaflets I should not use a white van

Trying to define a person by their choice of transport is plain silly.

Respect is a two way street and the comment from a councillor that cyclists should show motorists some or more respect clearly indicates the mind set of the man. He is not necessarily pro-cars but he is certainly not pro-bikes. He probably wants to get out of the EU, is annoyed at the immigrants and detests teenagers out for a laugh of a weekend. All things of his Parties own making. Well, if you make the bed, you can lie in it.

I don't want to get all political but I'm going to anyway. Since the 1980's Tory Governments created the world we live in today; relatively selfish, short tempered, congested, and deregulated. We were encouraged to be pro-car and anti-public transport, pro-pedestrian and anti-cyclist. Well times have changed and we, the cycling electorate, want to see our roads less congested and our living spaces quieter and cleaner. To that end we need to be more even handed about cycling and public transport. In order of priority our road management policies should be as follows; pedestrians, cyclists, public transport, motorcycles, cars, lorries. Whenever there is potential conflict, cyclists and pedestrians should be put together in the same space.

No one complains if a pedestrian crosses a road when the traffic lights are Red because they are not directed at them and we need the same attitude towards cyclists. If a Cyclist filters through a Red light carefully and does not cross the path of oncoming traffic, or across traffic coming from the left, then I don't see what the problem is. At all times the cyclist should be respectful of all other road users and pedestrians and so long as they are why should they be penalised? Where cyclists are concerned the spirit of the law is what matters, not the letter, but unfortunately there are too many pedants out there, who will never get passed the 'rules'. When I drive I expect the unexpected and keep my eyes open for cyclists and motorcycles at all times. Being a motorcyclist, and cyclist too, probably helps my awareness but it really isn't difficult. I just keep my mind on my driving and not on my mobile phone, lighting a cigarette, or the screaming kids, etc.

Things are getting better though. In Twickenham, I noticed the busy High Street T-junction has had the pavement dropped to allow cyclists to filter onto the footpath area and effectively through the lights in safety. A great idea and a bit of good sense by traffic managers. The principle should be duplicated everywhere it is possible to do so, not just at pinch points.

*can* airbags kill people?

Respect is earned.

Lumping all cyclists together as disrespectful lawbreakers is disrespectful in of itself.

It sounds to me like Conservative councillor Robin Garrido is asking people to respect him when he doesn't respect them.

Cuts both ways in my opinion.

"Cycle awareness campaigns – British Cycling's core philosophy is the need for mutual respect between all road users. Often, awareness campaigns focus on what road users must do to improve their behaviour, however this can be counterproductive. Messages should be focussed on mutual respect such as the need to "share the road", "look out for each other" and "leave plenty of space"."

Taken from: (http://www.theguardian.com/local-government-network/2014/may/19/why-brit...)

I think this makes a good point. Any debate started with "X should do more" is not going to be very fruitful, as is focuses the narrative unnaturally (and unfairly) on X, when X is just a piece of something much greater. It doesn't represent the real issues and the real situations that determine whether people live or die on the roads, and is thus utterly unprogressive.

There is no 'us and them'. There is just a single, shared space. And until that space gets allocated a bit more sensibly, we all have to get by and use it effectively.

Of course, 'allocating that space more sensibly' is a key issue, but a separate one, unrelated to these sorts of comments thrown around about various subgroups and what they should or should not be doing.

Designing the road system should be about planning for the mistakes of the future, ironing them out, and ensuring they don't end up being fatal. It's a very different thing from throwing around the blame of the past.

Vaguely related, I first saw this today: (www.visionzeroinitiative.com). It's a very agreeable concept. And it's got a solid name too; everything seems more concrete when it's given a name.

Darn shame, he could have joined us on Saturday with a couple of very nice, enthusiastic people from TFGM, who cycled up Wilmslow Road and back with 250 or so other cyclists.

Oh well, I'm sure he has plenty to teach me about respect. Say, at 10am on Saturday morning when we can cycle up and down Wilmslow/Oxford Road until teatime. We'll both have learnt a lot about respect by then.

I openly invite any councillor from Tameside or Manchester to join me on my daily cycle commute into Manchester. This will give them a very real idea of who respects who on the roads in and around this area. I have asked them repeatedly to join my on my daily 10 mile commute down the A57 and never seem to get an answer! I wonder why???

Yawn.
Some people drive like idiots.
Some people ride like idiots.
Some people say stupid things.
Some journalists report rubbish.
Calm down.
Carry on.
That is all.

It seems to me that the councillor is clearly making a threat. What does it mean for a driver to decide that cyclists are not worthy of respect?
He is implicitly saying that he will drive differently around cyclists because some cyclists behave in ways he doesn't like.
Joselito's link to Bez explores the idea well.

It would also be educative to learn what he means by;

“There are things like... crossing from the near side to the left hand side."

And not reported above but in the local paper;

"...cutting across cars"

You'd hope any competent journo from local rag would have contacted the Councillor as asked him to clarify what he meant.
But no, just report the remarks and watch the clickbait counter.

But what does HE mean by "Respect"? It means different things to different people and is applied differently to different groups.

Look, we all know not all car drivers are demons just as we know that all cyclists are not saints. It's just that when one of us does something wrong we all do something wrong. It's an old joke but it's still true that...

"A 6'2" cyclist dressed like a tropical toad is completely invisible to car drivers until he jumps a red light. At which point he becomes all cyclists and visible from space."

This is why so many cyclists (including myself) have reacted so defensively. He may just have been bitten by the sound bite but he still should know better. I still think he's electioneering. He is an elected representative who sits on a powerful committee, he does not get benefit of doubt.

Once again - What does HE mean by "Respect"?

I always thought Bez had it spot on about 'respect'.

https://beyondthekerb.wordpress.com/2013/10/11/the-most-basic-respect/

That a councillor on the committee of the transport authority should speak in a way that echoes the views of so many people who are not well informed is a shame and shows that perhaps he doesn't understand the issues as he should. That the Manchester Evening News got hold of the comments and decided to use them in typical fashion to inflame feelings is also a shame. It's a shame but it isn't a surprise.

When I don't like what my councillors, or MP, do then I tell them and if I'm still not happy I use my vote against them. That would explain why our local MP came to talk to me about Space for Cycling recently (he wants my vote, and those of other people who ride bikes, for himself and his colleagues on the council).

The councillor makes, as do so many, the mistake of talking about the need for respect. It really isn't about respect at all but simply about behaving responsibly to those around you whether you respect them or not.

E.G. I don't respect drivers who drive badly around me and put me at extra risk (whether I'm cycling, driving or being a pedestrian) and I don't respect people on bikes who cycle badly (again whether I'm cycling driving or being a pedestrian). Behave badly and I'll tend not to respect you even if that is temporary!

But even when I don't respect people I will still behave responsibly around them.

What we need more of is people behaving well and being responsible and as Pete Abel so ably put it that means being careful of the most vulnerable.

The councillor said he was in favour of TfGM’s efforts to provide better facilities for cyclists in Greater Manchester.

“If we improve facilities it may have a knock on effect to improve the way we cycling.”

Doesn't really seem anti cycling does he. A guy say's we should show the respect we very vocally demand, and that facilities should be provided that make it easier for us to do so, and he gets slammed?

What exactly do you want him to say?

This is all a bit ridiculous. I commute 9 miles each way into Central London, and I have very few problems with most road users. Treat car drivers courteously and they are as good as gold, except for the odd muppet here and there.

Likewise there are also some cycling muppets who ride too fast, who go over zebras when people are crossing and as for red lights, I would say that 20% of cyclists ignore them. Quite frankly that isn't good enough and gives us all a bad name.

Responsibility is the key word on both sides. To be honest I read some of the comments above and completely understand what the man is saying.

There was a guy at my last workplace who used to get into scrapes all the time, usually with peds. Guess what he rode like he was wearing blinkers and that he owned the road.

For fuck's sake, let's all treat each other properly, together.

The problem is not the fact that this individual made these comments, it's not that he found a way to publish them, it's not that he has wheeled out you stinking corpse of RLJ cyclists* nor is it the fact that he makes strange utterances (crossing from the near side to the left hand side) that make no sense whatsoever.

No the problem is that he is a) an elected councillor, b) sits on the Transport for Greater Manchester committee and that c) this giftless, shiftless bastard is clearly electioneering; going for the knuckle dragging Daily Mail reader.

Anyway! What do councillors know about respect?

*I don't have the figures for Manchester but here are the figures for London as released by TfL.
15.8% of cyclists RLJ
16.2% of other road users RLJ
22% of Taxis and mini-cabs RLJ
If anyone does have the figures for other towns it might be fun to compare.

What precisely has Robin Garrido said that is so out of place. I don't see him "victim blaming". Just making a few comments full of common sense.

If we cyclists wish to take the moral high ground, then there's a large minority of us that need to stop acting like a Neolithic tribe and take responsibility for our actions.

Second to that the responses to this article don't really make us seem a civilized bunch worthy of anyone's respect.

A little less petty name calling and some more emotionless reasoned arguments are what is needed, should people find something disagreeable.