Big rise reported in cyclists seeking insurance after pedestrian collision legal case

Legs_Eleven_Worcester wrote:

I had a somewhat 'amiable altercation' with a cyclist last week, as I was crossing Tooley Street (in London) on foot.  I had the green man, and matey comes swooping through the red light.  I stopped dead in front of him and pointed back over his shoulder.  'That's a red light,' I said.  He stopped.  'Come on mate, I didn't run you over!'.  

'How does that make it OK?' I asked.  I cycle up this road every morning and I stop at the red.  Why can't you?  What makes you so special?'

He stared at me, as if unsure what to reply.

'People hate us, ever wondered why?' I asked.

'Mate, give me a break ...' he bleated, and cycled off.  

I know it's none of my business.  I know I'm not the Old Bill.  But it was good to vent. 

In his defence, he wasn't putting you in significant danger and he was able to stop in time.

hawkinspeter wrote:

Legs_Eleven_Worcester wrote:

I had a somewhat 'amiable altercation' with a cyclist last week, as I was crossing Tooley Street (in London) on foot.  I had the green man, and matey comes swooping through the red light.  I stopped dead in front of him and pointed back over his shoulder.  'That's a red light,' I said.  He stopped.  'Come on mate, I didn't run you over!'.  

'How does that make it OK?' I asked.  I cycle up this road every morning and I stop at the red.  Why can't you?  What makes you so special?'

He stared at me, as if unsure what to reply.

'People hate us, ever wondered why?' I asked.

'Mate, give me a break ...' he bleated, and cycled off.  

I know it's none of my business.  I know I'm not the Old Bill.  But it was good to vent. 

In his defence, he wasn't putting you in significant danger and he was able to stop in time.

Meh.  I tend to be quite anal about things like this.  The light was red, and it was red for a reason.  One can't really bitch about drivers acting like utter twats, if we're going to do the same.  IMHO, of course.

Legs_Eleven_Worcester wrote:

hawkinspeter wrote:

Legs_Eleven_Worcester wrote:

I had a somewhat 'amiable altercation' with a cyclist last week, as I was crossing Tooley Street (in London) on foot.  I had the green man, and matey comes swooping through the red light.  I stopped dead in front of him and pointed back over his shoulder.  'That's a red light,' I said.  He stopped.  'Come on mate, I didn't run you over!'.  

'How does that make it OK?' I asked.  I cycle up this road every morning and I stop at the red.  Why can't you?  What makes you so special?'

He stared at me, as if unsure what to reply.

'People hate us, ever wondered why?' I asked.

'Mate, give me a break ...' he bleated, and cycled off.  

I know it's none of my business.  I know I'm not the Old Bill.  But it was good to vent. 

In his defence, he wasn't putting you in significant danger and he was able to stop in time.

Meh.  I tend to be quite anal about things like this.  The light was red, and it was red for a reason.  One can't really bitch about drivers acting like utter twats, if we're going to do the same.  IMHO, of course.

Agree 100%

Legs_Eleven_Worcester wrote:

hawkinspeter wrote:

Legs_Eleven_Worcester wrote:

I had a somewhat 'amiable altercation' with a cyclist last week, as I was crossing Tooley Street (in London) on foot.  I had the green man, and matey comes swooping through the red light.  I stopped dead in front of him and pointed back over his shoulder.  'That's a red light,' I said.  He stopped.  'Come on mate, I didn't run you over!'.  

'How does that make it OK?' I asked.  I cycle up this road every morning and I stop at the red.  Why can't you?  What makes you so special?'

He stared at me, as if unsure what to reply.

'People hate us, ever wondered why?' I asked.

'Mate, give me a break ...' he bleated, and cycled off.  

I know it's none of my business.  I know I'm not the Old Bill.  But it was good to vent. 

In his defence, he wasn't putting you in significant danger and he was able to stop in time.

Meh.  I tend to be quite anal about things like this.  The light was red, and it was red for a reason.  One can't really bitch about drivers acting like utter twats, if we're going to do the same.  IMHO, of course.

Yeah, I tend towards the opposite when I'm a ped - very forgiving of smaller chunks of metal. I quite often will make way/space for scooters/skateboards/cycles on pavements. I can't recall any time that a cyclist has jumped a red whilst I've been crossing the road, but my instinct would be to wave them through - there's plenty of room for cyclists and pedestrians.

However, one thing that does bug me is pedestrians with no situational awareness - the ones who stand in doorways or cross in front of you with no realisation that they are blocking your path.

Legs_Eleven_Worcester wrote:

hawkinspeter wrote:

Legs_Eleven_Worcester wrote:

I had a somewhat 'amiable altercation' with a cyclist last week, as I was crossing Tooley Street (in London) on foot.  I had the green man, and matey comes swooping through the red light.  I stopped dead in front of him and pointed back over his shoulder.  'That's a red light,' I said.  He stopped.  'Come on mate, I didn't run you over!'.  

'How does that make it OK?' I asked.  I cycle up this road every morning and I stop at the red.  Why can't you?  What makes you so special?'

He stared at me, as if unsure what to reply.

'People hate us, ever wondered why?' I asked.

'Mate, give me a break ...' he bleated, and cycled off.  

I know it's none of my business.  I know I'm not the Old Bill.  But it was good to vent. 

In his defence, he wasn't putting you in significant danger and he was able to stop in time.

Meh.  I tend to be quite anal about things like this.  The light was red, and it was red for a reason.  One can't really bitch about drivers acting like utter twats, if we're going to do the same.  IMHO, of course.

I agree with you reproaching the reprobate.  But I disagree with the hint of 'collective responsibility' that you use as justification for doing so.  

You  were entirely justified in having a go at this guy for the simple reason that he was being rude towards you personally by trying to barge through when it was your turn, not his.    I'd probably have done the same, but I'd just see it as a dispute between the two of us, and nothing to do with my right to complain about motorists endangering people.

  I don't care how many cyclists jump reds, it doesn't change the facts about bad motorist behaviour or my right to "bitch" about it.

FluffyKittenofTindalos wrote:

Legs_Eleven_Worcester wrote:

hawkinspeter wrote:

Legs_Eleven_Worcester wrote:

I had a somewhat 'amiable altercation' with a cyclist last week, as I was crossing Tooley Street (in London) on foot.  I had the green man, and matey comes swooping through the red light.  I stopped dead in front of him and pointed back over his shoulder.  'That's a red light,' I said.  He stopped.  'Come on mate, I didn't run you over!'.  

'How does that make it OK?' I asked.  I cycle up this road every morning and I stop at the red.  Why can't you?  What makes you so special?'

He stared at me, as if unsure what to reply.

'People hate us, ever wondered why?' I asked.

'Mate, give me a break ...' he bleated, and cycled off.  

I know it's none of my business.  I know I'm not the Old Bill.  But it was good to vent. 

In his defence, he wasn't putting you in significant danger and he was able to stop in time.

Meh.  I tend to be quite anal about things like this.  The light was red, and it was red for a reason.  One can't really bitch about drivers acting like utter twats, if we're going to do the same.  IMHO, of course.

 

I agree with you reproaching the reprobate.  But I disagree with the hint of 'collective responsibility' that you use as justification for doing so.  

You  were entirely justified in having a go at this guy for the simple reason that he was being rude towards you personally by trying to barge through when it was your turn, not his.    I'd probably have done the same, but I'd just see it as a dispute between the two of us, and nothing to do with my right to complain about motorists endangering people.

 

  I don't care how many cyclists jump reds, it doesn't change the facts about bad motorist behaviour or my right to "bitch" about it.

In a perfect world, that's how it would work.  But when I'm abroad, I consider myself an 'ambassador' for the UK, and I do my best to behave in a respectful manner towards the people I meet, and to conform to their laws.  It's the same when I cycle.  I'm an 'ambassador' for cycling.  I like to think that when I stop for a red light, the driver behind me, or the pedestrian waiting to cross, or anyone else ... maybe, just maybe they'll think, 'Ha .. look at that.  They're not all utter c--ts, after all'.  

Conversely, when they see a cyclist go through a red light, no one says, 'Look at that fucking cyclist..'.  No, they will say, 'Fucking cyclists...', with the emphasis on the plural. 

It's wrong, and it's unfair, but that's the way it is.   Cyclists are a hated outgroup, and part of the (well documented) response to outgroups, is to attribute the behaviour of one person, to the group. 

FluffyKittenofTindalos wrote:

Legs_Eleven_Worcester wrote:

hawkinspeter wrote:

Legs_Eleven_Worcester wrote:

I had a somewhat 'amiable altercation' with a cyclist last week, as I was crossing Tooley Street (in London) on foot.  I had the green man, and matey comes swooping through the red light.  I stopped dead in front of him and pointed back over his shoulder.  'That's a red light,' I said.  He stopped.  'Come on mate, I didn't run you over!'.  

'How does that make it OK?' I asked.  I cycle up this road every morning and I stop at the red.  Why can't you?  What makes you so special?'

He stared at me, as if unsure what to reply.

'People hate us, ever wondered why?' I asked.

'Mate, give me a break ...' he bleated, and cycled off.  

I know it's none of my business.  I know I'm not the Old Bill.  But it was good to vent. 

In his defence, he wasn't putting you in significant danger and he was able to stop in time.

Meh.  I tend to be quite anal about things like this.  The light was red, and it was red for a reason.  One can't really bitch about drivers acting like utter twats, if we're going to do the same.  IMHO, of course.

 

I agree with you reproaching the reprobate.  But I disagree with the hint of 'collective responsibility' that you use as justification for doing so.  

You  were entirely justified in having a go at this guy for the simple reason that he was being rude towards you personally by trying to barge through when it was your turn, not his.    I'd probably have done the same, but I'd just see it as a dispute between the two of us, and nothing to do with my right to complain about motorists endangering people.

 

  I don't care how many cyclists jump reds, it doesn't change the facts about bad motorist behaviour or my right to "bitch" about it.

I can see all these points of view, but I tend to agree with LegsEleven. No, most of the time cyclists don't pose that much of a danger compared to cars, but how hard is it to stop at a red light? I often see pedestrians being / feeling forced to yield to cyclists who are flagrantly ignoring a pedestrian crossing, when they should be confident they can cross. One of my family was hit by a cyclist on a pedestrian crossing, suffering multiple broken bones as a result, so I am particularly anal about it and will often call others out. Usually this will be at a larger junction down the road where I sarcastically ask how they decide which red lights to stop at. 

On the collective responsibility point, I like to have my cake and eat it. If ever a driver gives me the "but cyclists do / don't [insert complaint here]" argument then I'll tell them the error of their ways re: collective responsibility. But I don't see the harm in the twin-pronged approach of also pointing out to other cyclists that (rightly or wrongly) people group us together, and their inconsiderate riding may indirectly affect my safety.                 

hawkinspeter wrote:

Legs_Eleven_Worcester wrote:

I had a somewhat 'amiable altercation' with a cyclist last week, as I was crossing Tooley Street (in London) on foot.  I had the green man, and matey comes swooping through the red light.  I stopped dead in front of him and pointed back over his shoulder.  'That's a red light,' I said.  He stopped.  'Come on mate, I didn't run you over!'.  

'How does that make it OK?' I asked.  I cycle up this road every morning and I stop at the red.  Why can't you?  What makes you so special?'

He stared at me, as if unsure what to reply.

'People hate us, ever wondered why?' I asked.

'Mate, give me a break ...' he bleated, and cycled off.  

I know it's none of my business.  I know I'm not the Old Bill.  But it was good to vent. 

In his defence, he wasn't putting you in significant danger and he was able to stop in time.

"he was able to stop in time " sums it up. There's a rule, its red so pedestrians can cross not so they can make a call on whether cyclist are able to stop in time.

nicmason wrote:

hawkinspeter wrote:

Legs_Eleven_Worcester wrote:

I had a somewhat 'amiable altercation' with a cyclist last week, as I was crossing Tooley Street (in London) on foot.  I had the green man, and matey comes swooping through the red light.  I stopped dead in front of him and pointed back over his shoulder.  'That's a red light,' I said.  He stopped.  'Come on mate, I didn't run you over!'.  

'How does that make it OK?' I asked.  I cycle up this road every morning and I stop at the red.  Why can't you?  What makes you so special?'

He stared at me, as if unsure what to reply.

'People hate us, ever wondered why?' I asked.

'Mate, give me a break ...' he bleated, and cycled off.  

I know it's none of my business.  I know I'm not the Old Bill.  But it was good to vent. 

In his defence, he wasn't putting you in significant danger and he was able to stop in time.

"he was able to stop in time " sums it up. There's a rule, its red so pedestrians can cross not so they can make a call on whether cyclist are able to stop in time.

 

To be honest, I see traffic lights as being far more important in separating pedestrians from motorised traffic. Back in the day we didn't need traffic lights to cope with pedestrians, horses and cyclists - it was only when the automobile became popular that there was a requirement for automated trafffic lights everywhere.

efail wrote:

Are judges allowed to have shares in insurance companies?

Don't think there is much money to be made from cyclists unless volumes go through the roof. No doubt some people will discover they are already insured.

Also if he had been insured, the counter claim would have highly likely lead to an out of court settlement.

Sriracha wrote:

"The Sunday Times points out that had he been insured, any costs awarded against him would have been capped at around £7,000."

So how does that work? Lawyers charge more if you are uninsured? Or, insurance companies simply won't accept exorbitant charges, but Joe Public just has to take it on the chin?

The costs thing is because he did not counter sue, not simply because he no insurance. By the time he got lawyers involved, he had missed the deadline to countersue.
If he had insurance, then they would have insisted on counter suing despite his qualms about compensation culture.

Sriracha wrote:

"The Sunday Times points out that had he been insured, any costs awarded against him would have been capped at around £7,000." So how does that work? Lawyers charge more if you are uninsured? Or, insurance companies simply won't accept exorbitant charges, but Joe Public just has to take it on the chin?

Which basically tells us that the system is fucked so we pour more money into the system that continues to bend us over. Brilliant!

alansmurphy wrote:

Sriracha wrote:

"The Sunday Times points out that had he been insured, any costs awarded against him would have been capped at around £7,000." So how does that work? Lawyers charge more if you are uninsured? Or, insurance companies simply won't accept exorbitant charges, but Joe Public just has to take it on the chin?

 

Which basically tells us that the system is fucked so we pour more money into the system that continues to bend us over. Brilliant!

I thought we had the best justice system that money could buy.

brooksby wrote:

My Cycling uk membership renewed last week, so I'm covered. ...

CyclingUK 3rd party insurance here too.