- News
- Reviews
- Bikes
- Accessories
- Accessories - misc
- Computer mounts
- Bags
- Bar ends
- Bike bags & cases
- Bottle cages
- Bottles
- Cameras
- Car racks
- Child seats
- Computers
- Glasses
- GPS units
- Helmets
- Lights - front
- Lights - rear
- Lights - sets
- Locks
- Mirrors
- Mudguards
- Racks
- Pumps & CO2 inflators
- Puncture kits
- Reflectives
- Smart watches
- Stands and racks
- Trailers
- Clothing
- Components
- Bar tape & grips
- Bottom brackets
- Brake & gear cables
- Brake & STI levers
- Brake pads & spares
- Brakes
- Cassettes & freewheels
- Chains
- Chainsets & chainrings
- Derailleurs - front
- Derailleurs - rear
- Forks
- Gear levers & shifters
- Groupsets
- Handlebars & extensions
- Headsets
- Hubs
- Inner tubes
- Pedals
- Quick releases & skewers
- Saddles
- Seatposts
- Stems
- Wheels
- Tyres
- Health, fitness and nutrition
- Tools and workshop
- Miscellaneous
- Buyers Guides
- Features
- Forum
- Recommends
- Podcast
news
Near Miss of the Day 714 (updated): Police stand by comments questioning cyclist's positioning despite Highway Code changes
Earlier this month, road.cc reader Andrew sent us this two-year-old clip, predicting it may well start quite a debate about positioning. At the time South Wales Police told him they weren't impressed with his middle of the lane position at the roundabout, and would not be taking action against the driver... and in their latest response to road.cc, the force said the response was "appropriate at that time."
> Near Miss of the Day 713: Driver asked not to close pass... then does it again
Below is the original response that Andrew got from South Wales Police, telling him they would not be taking action against the driver, and claiming he was at fault:
Thank you for the submission. We have concerns about your positioning whilst negotiating the roundabout.
It is clear that you have entered in a nearside position but then drifted across to the offside when you are manoeuvring around the roundabout resulting in you being drawn closer to the passing vehicle.
If you had taken the same line as the cyclist behind you, who remained in a nearside position, there would have been no issues. No further action being taken.
Andrew told us he was interested to hear others' thoughts about this, saying "I report many close passes and generally get a good response from operation SNAP in Wales.
"However, my last few have ended in comments criticising the way I ride and end up blaming me. I would be happy to amend my cycling to make it safer for myself but I struggle to see how moving to the 'nearside' position would have prevented this close pass or made it safer to negotiate the roundabout."
As you'll see below many of you did indeed comment, with a number of you suggesting that the police response was wrong because the driver overtook on a roundabout.
It seems that South Wales Police big to differ, however, as their statement to road.cc confirms they will not be commenting further, and that the response was appropriate based on the rules of the Highway Code at that time.
Here is their response to us in full:
This footage shows a time of May 1st 2020, almost two years ago. The response to the report was appropriate at that time.
The response to the complaint states that he cyclist to the rear clearly remained in a nearside position while the complainant drifted into the offside position while negotiating the roundabout.
The response was given according to the Highway Code as it stood then. It is inappropriate to comment upon an event from two years ago with regard to today’s Highway Code.
> Near Miss of the Day turns 100 - Why do we do the feature and what have we learnt from it?
Over the years road.cc has reported on literally hundreds of close passes and near misses involving badly driven vehicles from every corner of the country – so many, in fact, that we’ve decided to turn the phenomenon into a regular feature on the site. One day hopefully we will run out of close passes and near misses to report on, but until that happy day arrives, Near Miss of the Day will keep rolling on.
If you’ve caught on camera a close encounter of the uncomfortable kind with another road user that you’d like to share with the wider cycling community please send it to us at info [at] road.cc or send us a message via the road.cc Facebook page.
If the video is on YouTube, please send us a link, if not we can add any footage you supply to our YouTube channel as an unlisted video (so it won't show up on searches).
Please also let us know whether you contacted the police and if so what their reaction was, as well as the reaction of the vehicle operator if it was a bus, lorry or van with company markings etc.
> What to do if you capture a near miss or close pass (or worse) on camera while cycling
Dan is the road.cc news editor and joined in 2020 having previously written about nearly every other sport under the sun for the Express, and the weird and wonderful world of non-league football for The Non-League Paper. Dan has been at road.cc for four years and mainly writes news and tech articles as well as the occasional feature. He has hopefully kept you entertained on the live blog too.
Never fast enough to take things on the bike too seriously, when he's not working you'll find him exploring the south of England by two wheels at a leisurely weekend pace, or enjoying his favourite Scottish roads when visiting family. Sometimes he'll even load up the bags and ride up the whole way, he's a bit strange like that.
Latest Comments
- chrisonabike 30 min 9 sec ago
Agree that the moaning comes from a place of priveledge and ultimately "if only there weren't so many other people driving"....
- Simon E 37 min 6 sec ago
Have added some clarification....
- Simon E 46 min 24 sec ago
I was tempted to try Galibier gloves but opted for Endura Freezing Point from LBS last year. Not cheap (£60, I think). I'd prefer a shorter cuff...
- Simon E 1 hour 24 min ago
I can't wait that long! Here's a series that any good vlogger / 'grammer would surely recognise....
- Simon E 1 hour 32 min ago
At 2.30pm on Saturday a small hatchback car "came to rest on its side in a precarious position" near the hamlet of Ratlinghope on the west side of...
- IanMK 2 hours 10 min ago
I do wonder if Highway Planners and Councils understand all the implications of putting in traffic calming measures. They certainly take no...
- Oldfatgit 2 hours 29 min ago
How long before some waste of DNA complains about them on the footpath ... or for Grimsby [and the other shit-tips] to ban them ...
- mattw 3 hours 17 min ago
I've only just spotted this....
- Another_MAMIL 3 hours 41 min ago
I also liked Polartec NeoShell and was disappointed it was discontinued. Polartec RPM looks similar, but it's unclear how NeoShell and RPM compare....
- pockstone 3 hours 53 min ago
"Due to the increasing speed of bicycles..., we have to expect that such accidents will happen more often.”...
Add new comment
156 comments
Stunning level of expertise here (not from those defending the driver, obvs).
Some signage is visible there also I believe; in any case, common sense would tell one that full-sized roundabouts are not, as a rule, placed on T-junctions, the only reason for implying there might not be four exits would be if one were desperately trying to defend a driver for selecting the wrong lane on entry and then overaggressively switching back across other road users to reach their desired exit...hang on...
Extra like for unusually thoughtful discussion!
How did you get extra likes to give out - is that some kind of subscriber perk?
I lent him some of mine...
This is true. Captain Badger is also too modest to mention that he got his by intoning "Great minds think - a like!" several times.
Is this police force having a frickin' laugh?!
The driver straddles both lanes (one of which a cyclist was in, parallel) going into the roundabout, overtakes one cyclist on the roundabout, tailgates the other cyclist and then beeps their horn at them and overtakes before the traffic island is even finished... and they have the audacity to criticise the cyclist's positioning when it's only the cyclist's positioning that has dissuaded the driver from ramming through into the exit where the cyclist would be had they taken the more circular route?!
The HC at the time of the incident promotes Primary Position. I refer to Annex 1 that recommends cyclsts undertake training, Bikeabilty. Primary Position is part of that training. Ergo the police are wrong and have not fully read or understand the HC.
Say it ain't so....
The response was given according to the Highway Code as it stood then. It is inappropriate to comment upon an event from two years ago with regard to today’s Highway Code
So The Filth say. However, a glance at No. 718 shows that don't really accept that a cyclist already on a roundabout has any priority over someone entering the roundabout, and that priority is not exactly a revolutionary new rule. Lancashire Constabulary has made it clear they're not interested in any new-fangled rules, which is no surprise as they're not interested in most of the old rules and traffic laws either.
The Uncle Toms on here may say 'but the police in 718 sent a warning letter'. Warning letters are worthless- to a BMW driver that just means 'Carry On! Do what you like to the Rats of the Road- we don't care!' If a driver commits the same offence again, the police are just going to make sure they accidentally don't notice the previous warning letter.
You must have a paint shortage in the UK, we'd never do a roundabout without proper markings. The way that one is, with two lanes on entry and a single lane on exit 2 going by the markings, tells me the right lane must turn right while the left lane can turn left or go straight ahead. We would paint direction arrows on the approach to show this, and lane markings on the roundabout to reinforce the message.
so by my reckoning the driver was in the wrong lane to go straight ahead, and should have waited behind both cyclists until past the roundabout.
You're not wrong. Roundabout markings are a bit randomly applied in the UK. Here's a couple of examples from the unofficial home of the roundabout, Milton Keynes...
its quite a common way UK road planners use to increase queuing capacity of roundabouts,without redesigning the whole thing, also at traffic light junctions too, the idea being 2 lanes "double" the input and "shorten" the queues and everyone merges in turn on the exit nicely.
now theres some merit in the idea as Brits will often join a queue single file and leave a perfectly usable lane completely empty, which just increases tailbacks, but the merge part is always where it goes a bit wrong because Brits also passionately dislike queue jumpers and wont let people merge in turn because MGIF.
in fact Im sure theres a whole genre of videos on youtube devoted to dash cam mergings of lanes and when it goes wrong.
so the car is probably perfectly ok to use the right lane there, but we come back to the point the police seem unable to acknowledge, you dont overtake on the roundabout and you merge in turn on the exit.
a decent driver wouldnt have caused that issue to develop regardless of the cyclists position.
Thanks road.cc for obtaining a comment from the police.
I'm not surprised at their response. It would have been nice if they could have just added a reminder that motorists should not attempt to overtake across a junction. That guidance has not changed in the updated highway code.
I think they were wrong to state the driver's manoeuvre would have created 'no issues' if the cyclist had been further to the left.
For what it's worth plod is wrong. You don't overtake on roundabouts. Not to mention the rule changes.
However, and this may be the wide angle lens, it doesn't look like a near miss. The beep is unnecessary, but none of it looked dangerous.
For what it's worth plod is wrong
They're wrong about lots of things, but I am accumulating evidence of the offences Lancashire Constabulary officers are determined to ignore. So far it's number plate illegalities, no VED when proven to be on the public road and no MOT when proven to be on a public road. It's eventually going to come back to haunt them, just like failures came back to afflict the Met
This is key. I'm not sure about the South Wales police, but Thames Valley will not investigate any driving infringement unless it is dangerous or they're a frequent offender.
It's been posted before, but this is the criteria TVP use when triaging allegations. It's well worth a read. I would think carefully before submitting anything that would fail this test.
I include in my submission form the exact wording from the list of examples on page 2 that I think would apply. I also explain my positioning in the road, especially if in primary, to try and pre-empt any misconceptions about that.
this is the criteria TVP use when triaging allegations. It's well worth a read. I would think carefully before submitting anything that would fail this test
Well, I wouldn't think anything at all about the TVP criteria because they're a load of tripe, and not worth any time at all. Follow their ideas, and you'll be dead before they'll consider any incident or issue the standard 'our thoughts are with the family of the deceased' insincere-o-gram. They're from the Stone Age (2017), don't include the words 'cycle', 'cyclist', 'bike', 'vulnerable' etc. and the intent runs counter to the much touted 'new HC rules'. Only consider these rules if you are determined to be a dead or seriously injured Uncle Tom type of cyclist
It looked closer than 1.5m.
Definitely a close pass, with the horn toot telling the cyclist to move over, I'm coming past; the cyclist held position, possibly poor road condition but the driver appeared to have expected the front cyclist to hug the left like the other cyclist.
185
When reaching the roundabout you should
watch out for all other road users already on the roundabout; be aware they may not be signalling correctly or at all
186
You should give priority to cyclists on the roundabout. They will be travelling more slowly than motorised traffic. Give them plenty of room and do not attempt to overtake them within their lane. Allow them to move across your path as they travel around the roundabout.
187
In all cases watch out for and give plenty of room to
traffic crossing in front of you on the roundabout, especially vehicles intending to leave by the next exit
traffic which may be straddling lanes or positioned incorrectly
I wonder if the design of a typical British roundabout doesn't help. I was recently in France and the roundabouts there had what seems to be a safer design:
The French roundabouts don't widen significantly at the entrance the way that a British one does, there's no question of getting 2 cars side by side. Similarly the exits aren't two lanes that immediately narrow to one which is typical of a British roundabout. The roundabout itself is only slightly narrower than a British roundabout, but everyone treats it as a single lane rather than the "sort of not quite two lanes" you get on a British roundabout. There's no dilema about positioning on the approach or as you go round the roundabout, there's one lane and you drive in the middle of it.
I think the French design has less capacity. The 2 lanes at the entrance on a British roundabout allows more vehicles to join when there is a break in the traffic.
Even better is the turbo roundabout. There's one in Bedford. You wouldn't be able to pull that manoeuvre there, unless you wanted to collect some bollards...
https://goo.gl/maps/VfAL7qY84kEyzkVe6
Turbo roundabouts are - of course - properly not the domain of bicycles [1] [2] (they blagged cycling money for the Bedford one though accounts of how this happened are contested). Turbo roundabouts are to maximise the flow of cars but more safely than a normal roundabout. They're apparently not good for motorbikes either.
Unless that is you're a keen UK designer that is. It's just so hard to think beyond the car and probably you'd be sacked if you started from any other point.
Other than that you want one of these in urban areas and possibly one of these outside them (disputed here and the view for here), and if there are too many cars you don't want bikes or pedestrians on the roundabout at all - they should have their own bypass!
Absolutely, Fendon Rd. is what you really want in an urban environment, but you also need the segregated cycle paths to link up to it.
I don't find the Bedford turbo bad on a bike at all, unless using the cycle path! I mean, who could have designed this sign and thought it was a good job done?...
That's definitely in the category of "if you have to issue a leaflet on how to use the crossing, you've designed a shit crossing".
who could have designed this sign and thought it was a good job done?..
Oddly, I would have been quite happy with that sign!
Why would that be? (Looks a nicely made sign to be fair)
If I saw that kind of sign, I'd be looking to join the road and skip the twiddly bits entirely - might as well have priority over the side road. Also, it dumps you back on the road.
No such luck of having a cycle lane to leave, you just stay on the road that you're already on...
Wouldn't you be worrying that, unless that's a one way side entry, the junction markings are wrong?
Pages