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news
Near Miss of the Day 714 (updated): Police stand by comments questioning cyclist's positioning despite Highway Code changes
Earlier this month, road.cc reader Andrew sent us this two-year-old clip, predicting it may well start quite a debate about positioning. At the time South Wales Police told him they weren't impressed with his middle of the lane position at the roundabout, and would not be taking action against the driver... and in their latest response to road.cc, the force said the response was "appropriate at that time."
> Near Miss of the Day 713: Driver asked not to close pass... then does it again
Below is the original response that Andrew got from South Wales Police, telling him they would not be taking action against the driver, and claiming he was at fault:
Thank you for the submission. We have concerns about your positioning whilst negotiating the roundabout.
It is clear that you have entered in a nearside position but then drifted across to the offside when you are manoeuvring around the roundabout resulting in you being drawn closer to the passing vehicle.
If you had taken the same line as the cyclist behind you, who remained in a nearside position, there would have been no issues. No further action being taken.
Andrew told us he was interested to hear others' thoughts about this, saying "I report many close passes and generally get a good response from operation SNAP in Wales.
"However, my last few have ended in comments criticising the way I ride and end up blaming me. I would be happy to amend my cycling to make it safer for myself but I struggle to see how moving to the 'nearside' position would have prevented this close pass or made it safer to negotiate the roundabout."
As you'll see below many of you did indeed comment, with a number of you suggesting that the police response was wrong because the driver overtook on a roundabout.
It seems that South Wales Police big to differ, however, as their statement to road.cc confirms they will not be commenting further, and that the response was appropriate based on the rules of the Highway Code at that time.
Here is their response to us in full:
This footage shows a time of May 1st 2020, almost two years ago. The response to the report was appropriate at that time.
The response to the complaint states that he cyclist to the rear clearly remained in a nearside position while the complainant drifted into the offside position while negotiating the roundabout.
The response was given according to the Highway Code as it stood then. It is inappropriate to comment upon an event from two years ago with regard to today’s Highway Code.
> Near Miss of the Day turns 100 - Why do we do the feature and what have we learnt from it?
Over the years road.cc has reported on literally hundreds of close passes and near misses involving badly driven vehicles from every corner of the country – so many, in fact, that we’ve decided to turn the phenomenon into a regular feature on the site. One day hopefully we will run out of close passes and near misses to report on, but until that happy day arrives, Near Miss of the Day will keep rolling on.
If you’ve caught on camera a close encounter of the uncomfortable kind with another road user that you’d like to share with the wider cycling community please send it to us at info [at] road.cc or send us a message via the road.cc Facebook page.
If the video is on YouTube, please send us a link, if not we can add any footage you supply to our YouTube channel as an unlisted video (so it won't show up on searches).
Please also let us know whether you contacted the police and if so what their reaction was, as well as the reaction of the vehicle operator if it was a bus, lorry or van with company markings etc.
> What to do if you capture a near miss or close pass (or worse) on camera while cycling
Dan is the road.cc news editor and joined in 2020 having previously written about nearly every other sport under the sun for the Express, and the weird and wonderful world of non-league football for The Non-League Paper. Dan has been at road.cc for four years and mainly writes news and tech articles as well as the occasional feature. He has hopefully kept you entertained on the live blog too.
Never fast enough to take things on the bike too seriously, when he's not working you'll find him exploring the south of England by two wheels at a leisurely weekend pace, or enjoying his favourite Scottish roads when visiting family. Sometimes he'll even load up the bags and ride up the whole way, he's a bit strange like that.
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156 comments
No, the sign does not purport to be an aerial photo of the junction which you study at length. You flash past and only have a couple of seconds- if I was on the cycle path, I would quickly work out that I had to cross the side road then re-join the main road; if I was on the main road I would quickly see it didn't apply to me. Complaint rejected.
That didn't purport to be a serious complaint...
It’s worth noting that the footage is from last year, but is a good example of one of the situations that has been clarified in the Highway Code changes that took effect a couple of weeks ago.
Here’s what the Highway Code now says about using roundabouts:
Add that to the hierarchy of road users and, under the new rules, it’s clear that it is the motorist who didn’t follow the rules here.
I was a little annoyed at the response from South Wales Police to my last submission to OpSnap (also involving a roundabout), but after some healthy debate on here over the video that I submitted, I learnt a valuable lesson from my fellow riders. Now watching this I am annoyed again! The language of this response was very similar to mine, and very dismissive of the cyclist whilst suggesting the driver did nothing wrong and had this situation forced upon them by the cyclist. I would put money on that whoever reviewed this for SWP has never cycled on the road.
These roundabouts with poorly defined lanes are always very difficult for the cyclist to judge the safest approach. The road markings imply two lanes on entry, and then vanish on the roundabout leaving it wide open to abuse/confusion. You could certainly argue that the cyclist ‘changed lanes’ on the roundabout, but then so did the driver! They were in the right hand lane on entry, then moved left, beeped and close passed on the exit. Which road user is the more dangerous one? The driver was behind the cyclist prior to the roundabout and their correct choice should’ve been to hang back and wait until after the roundabout to overtake safely, that is their responsibility as the road user with the greater potential to do harm. Poor behaviour from the driver, and a very poor response from SWP.
My initial thought was the riders position made this into something that was really nothing.
However then I thought it over some more and concluded;
- there was actually nothing wrong with the cyclists position, unless you were a car trying to overtake a cyclist through the roundabout that is.
- the roundabout did not present a reasonable opportunity for an overtake. Even if the cyclist had hugged the left curb, the overtake was only possible by the car cutting the roundabout (which the police have already stipulated they weren't impressed by), and realistically, the cyclist braking before exiting the roundabout to allow the car to come back onto the correct lane - to avoid the car illegally travel across the hazards. In summary... the overtake was never on.
- the cyclist did what they have been instructed to; take primary to dissuade a potentially dangerous overtake. The fact the overtake was dissuaded shows that taking primary worked
As an aside, I am sure I was never taught to overtake through a single lane roundabout.
the cyclist is in the correct position and what's more he has priority because he is in front at the junction. It is as simple as that. Hooting is antisocial and wrong in this instance - you can't hoot another road user out of the way when they have priority. The driver can overtake when the road is clear and there is space to do so.
Why is the clip so short ? Hard to tell what happened.
Didn't help that there are two lanes approaching the roundabout and only 1 lane on the roundabout itself.
There is a very short line that appears to be a lane marking approaching the roundabout; ridiculous, as there's no room for two vehicles side by side through the roundabout.
.
Nope. Can't see the issue.
.
I had a similar one last year, the closest I have ever come to being hit without being knocked off. It was so bad I actually considered quitting riding on the road. I submitted the footage to Lancashire Police, showing the BMW X5 undertaking me on a roundabout when I was indicating to leave the roundabout, and turning in front of me to go around the roundabout missing my front wheel by a couple of centimetres, I was told that if I pursued this, the officer would prosecute me for dangerous cycling.
I can only conclude that the X5 driver was either a serving officer, or a relative of an officer.
This was the last straw for me with Lancs plod, absolute bunch of lazy incompetant fuckwits. But call someone gay on Twitter, and they are all over it.
Given the hatched area on exit, we can expect a motorist to think about making use of it - and personally, I do not want impatient motorists behind, so I get the feeling that the cyclist made an unwise choice to take primary when primary did not control the road. So although I don't think the motorist was the best, I think that it was only a close pass due to the cyclist trying to take a lane that couldn't be taken without being deliberately obstructive (as opposed to defensively obstructive in primary) - a secondary position would have worked fine, and the motorist was at least trying to stay clear - see the very wide entrance to the roundabout - which in turn encouraged the pass, because it creates 2 lanes. I wonder if the cyclist had taken the wide line whether the car would have been gone by the exit? I can think of a couple of roundabouts where they are sort of two laney (possibly thinking of HGVs?) and if you enter with another car, it is just easier and safer to keep out of the way rather than trying to own the road, but it does depend on car and bike desire lines.
So, not the best driving, but not aggressive enough to warrant sending to the police, and not the best riding because it appeared to be aggressive rather than defensive.
I agree partially with you here. Whilst there are no marked lanes, there is a path you are expected to take around the roundabout (that is not straightlining it). So I would be in primary, but in the left most 'lane' and be aware for bad drivers trying to pass.
There's a limit to how wide you can make yourself on a bike and, as you say, this is an occasion where you can't use road positioning to dissuade an overtake.
If you look at the highway code, you won't see the red path taken by the cyclist. Unfortunately, the police seem to be far more forgiving of driver behaviour than that of cyclists. It's a built-in bias in some forces.
Would the driver do that to a car? If the answer is no, then they shouldn't do it to a cyclist, simple as that really.
They might try. I have a sixth sense for people trying to do this, and they ARE usually in an Audi or BMW. It's a really dangerous manouvre.
I'm not sure taking a line like this cyclist did (btw... I mean in a car) to block the stupidity is less dangerous, but I do sometimes make that decision.
Bad positioning on the cyclists part drifting part way through. Initially the driver anticipated this and held back. Questionable on the drivers part overtaking so soon into the exit, probably thought it was safe to do so due to the hatched markings giving extra room. Would get a better feel seeing video for a bit longer and video from the front also.
I don't think it was a drift, I think it was deliberate positioning.
If it was intentional there was a lack of situational awareness, changing lane part way through a roundabout is never a good idea, whatever vehicle you are using.
But you have to unless wandering around the outside when turning right. Including mirror - signal - manoeuvre, according to my driving instructor way back when.
Two lanes coming into the roundabout so you should be in the correct lane when entering not changing midway. In the left lane going straight on, should be expecting traffic on your right turning right and not move into their path. Also expecting impatient drivers to potentially do what this one did and be in the right hand lane going straight on to attempt a pass (wrongly, before I get jumped on) since there's not two lanes on the exit. So sure, move over, but on exiting the roundabout to take the lane. Not when on the roundabout.
Finally we are getting somewhere, in you accepting that the motorist did something wrong.
Perhaps you will answer the question as to why it is acceptable for the motorist to commit multiple indiscretions of using the wrong lane on entry to the roundabout with a view to overtaking cyclists on a roundabout, aggressively using their horn to intimidate the cyclist and to enter the hatched lines when it is not necessary and for the police to do nothing about that?
I mean you were all for the police stopping red light jumping cyclists because the law is black and white.... yet the law is also black and white in relation to the indiscretions that the motorist carried out ...... but you don't carry the same righteous indignation about the motorist getting away with breaking the rules.
EDIT
You seem to have a habit of trying to shift all of the blame to the cyclist.... I mean your first comment on this particular thread included "Initially the driver anticipated this and held back." which is almost diametrically opposed to your more recent comment accepting that the driver was in the wrong on their entry to the roundabout. Almost like you want to get a reaction from people on a cycling site
Once again we are entering the realm of straw man arguements. TBH it seems as much that members here want a reaction, hence resorting to straw men. No where have I shifted all blame to cyclists. The majority here are in agreement the cyclist position was poor, yet somehow here I am with a barrage of abuse from what seems the usual suspects. I never said the driver was in the right, and only put forward possible reasoning for their behaviour.
The drivers improper use of the roundabout is a moot point in how they reacted. Had it been a driver turning right it would have been the same situation, with the cyclist drifting into the wrong lane and the path of another vehicle. Someone actually did a pretty good overlay on roundabout negotiation and the cyclists mistake.
Again avoiding the question......
Why is it ok for the police to absolve the driver of all of their misdeeds because of one misdeed by the cyclist?
Tell me where I said it was OK for the police to absolve the driver?
I never said it was, and it isn't. Stating as such is just yet another straw man.
Edit. I should add it also seems like the cyclist is being absolved of wrongdoing and responsibility in an effort to add credibility to these straw man arguements.
I'm guessing you struggle with comprehension of the English Language.
The last time I checked.... twice I asked a question as to why is it acceptable for the police to absolve the motorist of their misdeeds because of one the cyclist commited. Nowhere did I say, infer or othwerise proffer any opinion about your stance on the matter.
What was that you were saying about straw men?
Popped up, put out a point, discussed it with a few people, then took some criticism and went into "I'll take you all, hive mind! Let's be having you!" mode.
We've probably all been there. "Is this your first heckle, sir?"
I have read pretty much every comment on here since your edit... Virtually every single commentator has said both motorist and cyclist are at fault, myself included.
I've not seen anyone try to absolve the cyclist of blame, merely question the approach taken by the police in outright rejecting the bad driving as a result of the cyclists poor road positioning.
I'm guessing we were watching a different video. Because the driver and the cyclist both have blame, and IMHO the driver more so.
Yes the cyclist drifted, but the driver did not hold back, they were planning on straight lining the roundabout at speed to overtake the cyclists while they were still on the roundabot. Only the cyclist drifting caused the driver to brake and react.
If the driver had been anticipating it, and understood what their responsibility was in the HC then they would have slowed down and waited behind both cyclists until they had cleared the roundabout.
It is quite clear "You should give priority to cyclists on the roundabout. They will be travelling more slowly than motorised traffic. Give them plenty of room and do not attempt to overtake them within their lane. Allow them to move across your path as they travel around the roundabout."
As for the overtake on the exit.... no way that gave the cyclist the 1.5m of space they should have done. And the hatched area is a misnomer..... the rules on that are also clear..... "Areas of white diagonal stripes or chevrons painted on the road. These are to separate traffic lanes or to protect traffic turning right. If the area is bordered by a broken white line, you should not enter the area unless it is necessary and you can see that it is safe to do so." I'd like to see your justification for it being necessary for the driver to enter the hatched area.
I haven't tried to justify anything, just put forward an opinion on how the police reached the conlusion they did, hence stating the driver "probably thought". Far from justifying the drivers behaviour.
And therein lies the issue. Yet another example of the police not applying the rules to a motorist despite clear video evidence of wrongdoing..... as a bare minimum the driver and cyclist should have both received advice rather than the driver's rule breaking being admonished because a cyclist did something the police disagree with
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