e-bike versus lightweight bike: which is quickest up a climb?

cyclesteffer wrote:

It's interesting, we now have ebikes coming on our group rides (about 40 miles on a Sunday morning). At first people seemed against the idea of having ebikes in the group, as it seemed like "cheating" but its actually great fun trying to keep up with them on the climbs.

Usually the riders of them are really fresh for the flat sprint sections as well, so can keep up even when there is no assistance.

However one of the guys has maybe been riding his ebike almost exclusively over the last three months, definitely seems to have lost some fitness, and could not keep up on the flat, (Where it sometimes gets up to 26mph+ in sections) for the first time ever that I've seen him suffer like that. So for high speed group riding, you probably still need to maintain good fitness, even on an ebike.

i shall be out on this actual e-bike on your group ride on Sunday Stef, so best bring your A-game

dave atkinson wrote:

cyclesteffer wrote:

It's interesting, we now have ebikes coming on our group rides (about 40 miles on a Sunday morning). At first people seemed against the idea of having ebikes in the group, as it seemed like "cheating" but its actually great fun trying to keep up with them on the climbs.

Usually the riders of them are really fresh for the flat sprint sections as well, so can keep up even when there is no assistance.

However one of the guys has maybe been riding his ebike almost exclusively over the last three months, definitely seems to have lost some fitness, and could not keep up on the flat, (Where it sometimes gets up to 26mph+ in sections) for the first time ever that I've seen him suffer like that. So for high speed group riding, you probably still need to maintain good fitness, even on an ebike.

i shall be out on this actual e-bike on your group ride on Sunday Stef, so best bring your A-game

Oh fuck.

cyclesteffer wrote:

dave atkinson wrote:

cyclesteffer wrote:

It's interesting, we now have ebikes coming on our group rides (about 40 miles on a Sunday morning). At first people seemed against the idea of having ebikes in the group, as it seemed like "cheating" but its actually great fun trying to keep up with them on the climbs.

Usually the riders of them are really fresh for the flat sprint sections as well, so can keep up even when there is no assistance.

However one of the guys has maybe been riding his ebike almost exclusively over the last three months, definitely seems to have lost some fitness, and could not keep up on the flat, (Where it sometimes gets up to 26mph+ in sections) for the first time ever that I've seen him suffer like that. So for high speed group riding, you probably still need to maintain good fitness, even on an ebike.

i shall be out on this actual e-bike on your group ride on Sunday Stef, so best bring your A-game

Oh fuck.

I'll be out on  a Wilier ebike that Dave reckons is a bit more powerful. I hope that helps

Iwein Dekoninck wrote:

cyclesteffer wrote:

dave atkinson wrote:

cyclesteffer wrote:

It's interesting, we now have ebikes coming on our group rides (about 40 miles on a Sunday morning). At first people seemed against the idea of having ebikes in the group, as it seemed like "cheating" but its actually great fun trying to keep up with them on the climbs.

Usually the riders of them are really fresh for the flat sprint sections as well, so can keep up even when there is no assistance.

However one of the guys has maybe been riding his ebike almost exclusively over the last three months, definitely seems to have lost some fitness, and could not keep up on the flat, (Where it sometimes gets up to 26mph+ in sections) for the first time ever that I've seen him suffer like that. So for high speed group riding, you probably still need to maintain good fitness, even on an ebike.

i shall be out on this actual e-bike on your group ride on Sunday Stef, so best bring your A-game

Oh fuck.

I'll be out on  a Wilier ebike that Dave reckons is a bit more powerful. I hope that helps

Dave, What will be the time differencebetween you on a Pinarello Nytro and someone else with about the same qualities as you on a conventional bike like the cannondale Liam used?

I think it is unfair to the countless possibilities and potentials that road e-bikes possess when all the video done to test these E-bikes are between people of very unequal cycling capabilities. It can't be any clearer that these e-bikes will benefits a huge number of struggling cycling enthusiast but it shouldn't cloud the possibility being used by more than just those who struggle with conventional bikes. 

Cyclist will have to say a big  'welcome' to their cousins e-cyclist

Iwein Dekoninck wrote:

cyclesteffer wrote:

dave atkinson wrote:

cyclesteffer wrote:

It's interesting, we now have ebikes coming on our group rides (about 40 miles on a Sunday morning). At first people seemed against the idea of having ebikes in the group, as it seemed like "cheating" but its actually great fun trying to keep up with them on the climbs.

Usually the riders of them are really fresh for the flat sprint sections as well, so can keep up even when there is no assistance.

However one of the guys has maybe been riding his ebike almost exclusively over the last three months, definitely seems to have lost some fitness, and could not keep up on the flat, (Where it sometimes gets up to 26mph+ in sections) for the first time ever that I've seen him suffer like that. So for high speed group riding, you probably still need to maintain good fitness, even on an ebike.

i shall be out on this actual e-bike on your group ride on Sunday Stef, so best bring your A-game

Oh fuck.

I'll be out on  a Wilier ebike that Dave reckons is a bit more powerful. I hope that helps

Dave, What will be the time difference between you on a Pinarello Nytro and someone else with about the same qualities as you on a conventional bike like the cannondale Liam used?

I think it is unfair to the countless possibilities and potentials that road e-bikes possess when all the videos done to test and review these e-bikes are between people of very unequal cycling capabilities. It can't be any clearer that these e-bikes will benefits a huge number of struggling cycling enthusiast but it shouldn't cloud the possibility being used by more than just those who struggle with conventional bikes. 

Cyclist will have to say a big  'welcome' to their cousins e-cyclist

Road E-bike Grand Prix wrote:

Iwein Dekoninck wrote:

cyclesteffer wrote:

dave atkinson wrote:

cyclesteffer wrote:

It's interesting, we now have ebikes coming on our group rides (about 40 miles on a Sunday morning). At first people seemed against the idea of having ebikes in the group, as it seemed like "cheating" but its actually great fun trying to keep up with them on the climbs.

Usually the riders of them are really fresh for the flat sprint sections as well, so can keep up even when there is no assistance.

However one of the guys has maybe been riding his ebike almost exclusively over the last three months, definitely seems to have lost some fitness, and could not keep up on the flat, (Where it sometimes gets up to 26mph+ in sections) for the first time ever that I've seen him suffer like that. So for high speed group riding, you probably still need to maintain good fitness, even on an ebike.

i shall be out on this actual e-bike on your group ride on Sunday Stef, so best bring your A-game

Oh fuck.

I'll be out on  a Wilier ebike that Dave reckons is a bit more powerful. I hope that helps

Dave, What will be the time difference between you on a Pinarello Nytro and someone else with about the same qualities as you on a conventional bike like the cannondale Liam used?

I think it is unfair to the countless possibilities and potentials that road e-bikes possess when all the videos done to test and review these e-bikes are between people of very unequal cycling capabilities. It can't be any clearer that these e-bikes will benefits a huge number of struggling cycling enthusiast but it shouldn't cloud the possibility being used by more than just those who struggle with conventional bikes. 

Cyclist will have to say a big  'welcome' to their cousins e-cyclist

Dave, we look forward to a review of you on your pinarello nytro and someone of equal cycling capabilities and weight on a conventional lightweighted road bike. 

Truffl3Shuffl3 wrote:

One other point here - the Cytronex C1 ebike conversion kit weighs in at 3.6kg. So, you could take a fairly average road bike which probably weighs about 9kg, add the kit and you'd still be much lighter than the very expensive Pinarello that you see in this video. Admittedly, the battery/motor used in each means it's not quite a direct comparison, but the point is you can have a relatively lightweight ebike, if you like, and not spend the earth (I think the C1 is about £1K, which is a bargain).

How much?!!

A TSDZ2 mid drive motor can be had for around £300. Throw in a battery for £200 and you can convert a bike for £500.

The TSDZ2 has a built in torque sensor, so is pedal assist in it's true sense (it adds a % of whatever power you are outputting - i.e. you pedal harder, the motor adds loads, you pedal softer, the motor adds less - which gives the the most 'natural' feel and is the basis for how Shimano, Bocsh, Yahama motors work). It's als mid drive, so benefit from the bikes normal drive system and gears making it very efficient.

Also, is the Cyronex 3.6kg with the battery? The TSDZ2 is also 3.6kg, albeit without battery, but it replaces your existing crankset so the true 'on bike' weight will equate to less.

I've found it to be much better than Bafang/8fun mid drive motor (the seemingly go-to DIY e-bike conversion motor).

Time for ebiketips/road.cc to do a comprehensive conversion kit comparison test I feel.

joules1975 wrote:

How much?!!

A TSDZ2 mid drive motor can be had for around £300. Throw in a battery for £200 and you can convert a bike for £500.

The TSDZ2 has a built in torque sensor, so is pedal assist in it's true sense (it adds a % of whatever power you are outputting - i.e. you pedal harder, the motor adds loads, you pedal softer, the motor adds less - which gives the the most 'natural' feel and is the basis for how Shimano, Bocsh, Yahama motors work). It's als mid drive, so benefit from the bikes normal drive system and gears making it very efficient.

Also, is the Cyronex 3.6kg with the battery? The TSDZ2 is also 3.6kg, albeit without battery, but it replaces your existing crankset so the true 'on bike' weight will equate to less.

I've found it to be much better than Bafang/8fun mid drive motor (the seemingly go-to DIY e-bike conversion motor).

Time for ebiketips/road.cc to do a comprehensive conversion kit comparison test I feel.

The C1 is a plug and play kit which even relative noobs could fit; I'm not sure the same could be said about the one you're referring to? I don't have any experience with it to comment, mind. And yes, 3.6kg with battery. At a guess I'd say you're adding another couple of kilos once you factor in the battery on the kit you refer to, so a fair bit heavier.

Anyway, that was just an example to highlight the relative cost effectiveness of going the conversion route. I, too, would love to see a group test of ebike conversion kits - not an easy undertaking mind!

Truffl3Shuffl3 wrote:

One other point here - the Cytronex C1 ebike conversion kit weighs in at 3.6kg. So, you could take a fairly average road bike which probably weighs about 9kg, add the kit and you'd still be much lighter than the very expensive Pinarello that you see in this video. Admittedly, the battery/motor used in each means it's not quite a direct comparison, but the point is you can have a relatively lightweight ebike, if you like, and not spend the earth (I think the C1 is about £1K, which is a bargain).

yup, i'm a big fan of the C1 system:

https://ebiketips.road.cc/content/reviews/electric-conversion-kits/cytro...

although it'd be a much better system with a rear hub motor, IMO. that's something they're looking into.

John Smith wrote:

I don’t know. I can see two reasons why people here might be interested:

 

1) Getting partners out cycling with us. My wife would never think of cycling with me on a normal bike. But an evoke she might. They would need to come down to sub £1k first (and close passes be taken seriously by the police)

 

2) Make is feel better when one glides past up a hill.

3) Getting to work not hot and sweaty.  A friend has an ebike of some kind, very heavy, but it has a lock & rack & mudguards as part of it and lights too I think, but north of 20kg.  He rides to work down a disused railway, about 5 miles each way.  Apart from his bike helmet and coat, the rest of his clothes are normal, and he can go straight to his desk without having to shower and change and stash away all the extra kit that riding a "normal" bike requires.  He has talked about selling one of their cars too.

It isn't for me yet, but maybe in my mid 60's it could be a useful addition.

Christopher TR1 wrote:

Generally though, for the fit and healthy: E-bikes - what's the fcuking point?!

I used to be of the same opinion, but changed my mind about ten years ago, because I'd met a few people who didn't have the confidence to ride without e-assistance.  For people who haven't ridden a bike for thirty or forty years,  e-bikes are a godsend and they'd never get back on a bike otherwise.  My sister in law for example.  She's 67, hasn't ridden a bike for twenty years and isn't very fit, but she's just bought an e-bike to go out with the grandkids.  I'm pretty sure I'll be able to persuade her to use it go to the shops and other short journeys too.

OK, they aren't for people like most of us on here,  but if they get more people out of a car and onto a bike, they have to be beneficial to all of us.

I’m

burtthebike wrote:

Christopher TR1 wrote:

Generally though, for the fit and healthy: E-bikes - what's the fcuking point?!

OK, they aren't for people like most of us on here,  but if they get more people out of a car and onto a bike, they have to be beneficial to all of us.

Agreed, they aren’t for people like us so articles like this are totally out of place on road.cc. 

I’m not against e-bikes, I’m seriously considering an assisted cargo bike. But articles like this need to be where the people who need them will see them. 

janusz0 wrote:

Agreed, they aren’t for people like us so articles like this are totally out of place on road.cc.

Something is out of place here, but it isn't this story.

Christopher TR1 wrote:

A friendly e-cyclist offered me his wind shadow the other week. Frankly I was almost insulted until he told me that his self-made machine could put out 1000W! Illegal, but at least he rode sensibly. And I did accept his wind shadow.

Generally though, for the fit and healthy: E-bikes - what's the fcuking point?!

At least two that I can think of.

1. Commuting

I'm a cyclist with 20+ years of riding behind me, can happily undertake 40+ mile, 'proper' mountain bike rides and 90+ mile road rides (probably more if I had the time), and will do overnight, wild camping adventure rides.

However, for my twice weekly commute involving of min 14 miles each way with a 30min train ride in the middle (unless I ride the whole way, in which case 80 mile round trip), carrying a hefty lock, lunch, breakfast (I head off way too early to eat it before leaving), I seriously considering a e-bike. Not because I can't do the commute under my own steam, or because an e-bike might save me a bit of time (because it'll only save me 5 mins or so), but when pedalling back, often 12 hours after I've left in the morning, the phsicological boost from knowing the ride home will be that much easier will mean I'm more likely to choose the bike and train option instead of the car and train.

And I'm not alone - a colleague, and former road bike racer has just bought an e-bike for the same reason. Now he's regularly cycling into work where'as before he drove.

2. Group ride

e-bikes can level the playing field in group rides, meaning the weaker riders don't constantly get dropped of the back and the stronger riders don't get hacked off constantly having to wait for others.

And in my case, my other half can keep pace with me when she's on her e-bike, meaning I can ride as normal when out with her, instead of soft pedalling most the way, and we can rider further because she enjoys it more too. Indeed, if she wacks up the settings she can have a laugh at me as I try to keep up.

Miller wrote:

Interesting video. A bike can't beat an e-bike up a climb, it's not even close.

Can a bike beat an e-bike over a full length ride starting and finishing in the same place, assuming the e-bike has the 25 km/h assistance limit in place? That would be an interesting challenge. Try that one next, Road.cc !

 

GCN did just that over a if I remember correctly 106km course with 3000metres which is pretty hilly.  The ebike rider even though he was much less fit than his co presenter comfortably outpaced  the standard road rider

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